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smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Mar 29, 2023 - 22:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I make this post for the benefit of coaches who are new to FUMBBL, or new to the BBT tourneys. But it might also be of general interest.

I took a whole year off FUMBBL. Soon after returning, I entered BBT7 (with Nurgle, Chaos, DEs and Norse). For better or worse, I play in a more entrepreneurial and risk-taking style than standard Euro-BB (it is rumoured that European coaches are so indoctrinated by a lifetime of soccer, with its classic 1-0 victories, that they consider 1-1 to be the exciting result).

2 TOURNAMENTS IN PARALLEL

BBT7 games split into 2 types in practice:

- Games against other BBT7 teams (or teams not in BBT7, but which have played less than 15 games).

- Games against lurking sandpit teams (e.g. 28 game Undead, 37 game Chaos Dwarfs, 40 game Orcs, 70 game Dwarfs, 101 game Wood Elves). Be prepared that such teams may win the game (purely on the strength of their rosters, not on skill) a majority of the time. This is in the nature of the current Blackbox environment. I found it frustrating more often than not, and it had a negative impact on the results of my 4-team squad.

BOMBARDIERS

Much virtual ink has already been expended on the subject (Bombers being the ClawPOMB of BB2020, lol). I met Bombers in BBT7 quite a few times, and found that they heavily influenced (i.e. won) their games around 50% of the time (if they make all their rolls, refuse to die, come back on Argue the Call - maybe more than once, etc., there is in practice little defence against them). Bombers were particularly harsh on the Norse (being AV7), who otherwise did very well. When an opponent can field a Bomber is of course in itself a random event. I found all these things frustrating.

ROSTER MANAGEMENT

I was very happy with the number of players I settled on in each team, being:

- 15 Norse (all positionals except the Yhetee).
- 14 Nurgle.
- 13 Chaos (no Big Guy).
- 13 Dark Elves.

These numbers were determined by AV and cost (the cheaper the reserves, the more of them - the extreme case being Beer Boars at 20,000 a pop), and by my tournament philosophy of trying to get to the 2nd half with 11 fit players. This worked most of the time, occasionally I would be reduced to e.g. 10. Which suggests I got numbers right.

RANDOM SKILL-UPS

I took random skill-ups on a goodly number of Linos, and on numerous players after game 14. My skill rolls were on the whole poor, and random skill-ups were less successful than they have been for me in other environments (a small number of such players were exceptions - some of them won games). So I will re-evaluate whether random skill-ups are a good strategy in BBT tourneys (like all good questions in BB, I suspect the answer is: "It depends").

BEST IN THE MIDDLE

A peculiarity of my squad performance was their uneven performance in time:

- First 5 games: 6/6/8.
- Middle 5 games: 11/4/5.
- Last 5 games: 8/6/6.

If the Norse are excluded (they bucked the trend, I think due to Bombers), the middle 5 games record is even more extreme (10/3/2). I attribute the uneven performance of the squad in time to:

- The sandpit teams (see above) lurk at TV100-110, and at mid-TV (but not in-between). At least I met few such teams in the middle games.

- I am quite experienced in environments resembling the middle 5 games (tabletop tourneys). By which I mean teams with a small number of well-chosen skills. Whereas I am still learning with teams earlier and later.

- I made some faulty retirement decisions with a couple of teams early on.

- I might have managed TV better for the last 5 games (wasted random skill-ups - bloat - being a main part of that). Because it influences which opponents you draw.

Hope that helps!
Carthage



Joined: Mar 18, 2021

Post   Posted: Mar 29, 2023 - 23:35 Reply with quote Back to top

The 'sandpit' teams are what makes me not really like the box. I take plenty of bad matchups in the gamefinder, I don't need to get sucker punched by game 100 dwarves with a MA9 runner.
Once redrafts come into effect I'll spin the box a bit more.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 30, 2023 - 02:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Very good insight and points.

I do agree that the 'sandpit' teams are an issue. Lets put the issue of redraft on the side.

IF the box scheduler only allowed teams with 14 or less games to be scheduled against each other that would, in theory, solve that issue. Once your team hits 15+ games then it is no holds barred. This is not a new concept on FUMBBL. there has been team protection in the Box based on games played and so forth.

Now all that being said.

As a 'sandpit' coach from way back in the day...this is the happy times for me. I can look for games on GF and hit Box and get a game. I dont care what so ever on how I get my game, pick or box, just that I got a game. As a old timer around here we debated this many years ago that the current system of how to find a game should be the merging the two systems into one has finally arrived.

Now to the very specific point of Box seasons. I get that allowing these 'sandpit' teams to show up and possibly ruin a good 15 game run is an issue. Now, that comes down to 2 discussion points. Is the Box now just a 15 game sprint for standing points? or is it a place you can just hit the button for activation, sit back and hopefully play a game of blood bowl and not have the other guy who joins giving you a rash of crap you are a 'sandpit' guy playing his 9 game skaven on a 8 game win streak?

You know what...my answer to both questions I pose is this....THIS IS BLOOD BOWL, GET OVER IT!!!!


**Footnote**

A tie is a abomination that should never happen in the world of Blood Bowl. It goes against all the back story, all the legends and the fictional world of Blood Bowl. Everyone should hate a tie, rebel in the face of a tie, leave a league who agrees that Ties are encouraged. Oh, go away you stupid WIL league fanatic, Iam tired of your promotion/demotion drivel. Dont get me started on the Aussies.

My final advise

Join a real league like the KPL...LINK below...New season starting up next month.

_________________
Comish of the: Image
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 07:04 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm taking the plunge now with a 2nd BBT7 squad. Imperials, Khorne, Vamps, Gobbos. At least I know I will get 5 points!

Wish me luck!
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 11:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Carthage wrote:
I take plenty of bad matchups in the gamefinder, I don't need to get sucker punched by game 100 dwarves with a MA9 runner.


You can't find a game 100 Dwarf team with a MA 9 Runner, max MA for Dwarf Runners is 8. Very Happy



@smeborg: Good luck and have fun!
BeanBelly



Joined: Nov 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:
Very good insight and points.

IF the box scheduler only allowed teams with 14 or less games to be scheduled against each other that would, in theory, solve that issue. Once your team hits 15+ games then it is no holds barred. This is not a new concept on FUMBBL. there has been team protection in the Box based on games played and so forth.


I agree with bringing back ‘protection’ in box. I hadn’t really realised it wasn’t there until I heard Christer say so on PC’s podcast.

Then my very next game my plucky zero game rookie elves ran into 20game Norse and it was a mess. Admittedly I’ve smashed plenty of teams up in Box with my heavy bash approach so I have absolutely no grounds for complaint. But it did make me wish for Seasons, and some scheduler protection linked to number of seasons played.

_________________
Painting myself into a corner
MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 02, 2023 - 20:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ye box should have protection to teams till 15 games atleast so long that we get seasons.

Theres enough teams with high number of games that they could play just eachother. Its silly that in competitive its competitive for new team and easy game for old one.

Then again Christer did say the other day that C stands for Cookie ;p

Its worse picking in Box than in finder, atleast on finder you dont have to play those silly matches.

_________________
Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies.
nadeden325



Joined: Jun 24, 2024

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2024 - 06:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Good insight.
smeborg



Joined: Jan 04, 2019

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2024 - 07:20 Reply with quote Back to top

I see this "old" post (from 15 months ago) has re-surfaced. I had another 4 month absence from FUMBBL, but have returned.

Bombers have been mostly consigned to oblivion by being ruled out as inducements.

Though time-poor at times, I have managed to play BBT games with reasonable regularity. This is something I think you can get better at with experience and application.

The main change in my play since the above post is in roster-management, keeping the TV of teams trimmer, and with fewer menz (e.g. Nurgle 12-13 menz; 'Zons 13 girlz; Norse 13 menz including 2 piglets; WEs 11 menz for now).

Probably in consequence of the leaner TV, I seem to encounter fewer of the "sandpit" teams now (though there may simply be fewer such teams around). There are coaches who prefer even leaner TV than me.

Hope that helps.
RDaneel



Joined: Feb 24, 2023

Post   Posted: Jun 24, 2024 - 12:25 Reply with quote Back to top

smeborg wrote:


- Games against lurking sandpit teams (e.g. 28 game Undead, 37 game Chaos Dwarfs, 40 game Orcs, 70 game Dwarfs, 101 game Wood Elves). Be prepared that such teams may win the game (purely on the strength of their rosters, not on skill) a majority of the time.


Perfectly agree on this sentence.

even more... we also have orcs with 300 games, skaven with 200 games... there are teams in Box that have been there for a good two years with monster players and perfectly organised skills and optimized TV.

This is the reason why I strongly encourage new FUMBBL coaches NOT to activate their BBT teams in Box after 15 games. The best strategy is- for such 15games old teams, to apply some minor tournaments where you can decide a TV range or apply in gamefinder.

And if you want a fair game also in gamefinder DON'T LOOK only the TV or race when send match offers: look also the game played: if your Khorne team TV 1450-1500 with 15 games want to play with another Khorne team TV 1500 but 40 games played for sure this last team will have some surprises (which often mean: one stat freak who can do whatever he wants).

ONLY when you have developed a roster in very efficient way, possibly with one stat freak champion, in general this requires 25-35 games played, you can risk again to apply in Box. And prefer always to keep TV as lowest as possible.

At least before FUMBBL Competitive division redraft which will clean little bit this .

_________________
To judge a man, one must at least know the secret of his thoughts, his misfortunes, his emotions, Balzac
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