Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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 Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 06:01 |
 
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| Quote: |
If there are rules for fouling, then it's legal
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Sorry, but the LRB doesn't agree with you BadMrMojo. First sentences on fouling:
"Attacking players that have been knocked over is, of
course, strictly against the rules. However, despite the
large number of ways in which a player can attack
another legally, many resort to the time-honoured
tradition of kicking a man when he’s down."
First sentence states it is against the rules, second indirectly calls it illegal...neither designated as a "roleplaying sense". Perhaps this is why so many coaches refuse to play others w/ dp or fouling history.
so why are there procedures written for this form of cheating but not for summoning Hellspawn Beasties....answer is, one form of cheating you might pull off, the other, you can't.
The college of magics that sponsor the event and broadcast it on CABAL vision have a 100% chance in twarting the hellspawns from interfering...thus no "rules" to make it happen. Fouling however, is the ref's jurisdiction, and sometimes he doesn't see it happen...or chooses not to, thus you have probability to cheat...and therefore "rules"/procedures have been made for it.
That's the subtle difference I see.
I'm not saying outlaw fouling on fumbbl and force-retire teams that do. But why outlaw an agreement to play true legit bloodbowl?
fouling is illegal in bloodbowl, as is fouling in basketball, clipping in football (american), and brawling in hockey. Despite being illegal, it's done routinely and they have rules on handling it. The game isn't disqualified if both teams agree not to foul/clip/assault each other. |
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Kommando
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 10:52 |
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wow, are you serious with that? |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 10:58 |
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becuase its cheating thats why |
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lord_real
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jun 29, 2004 - 11:22 |
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arktoris, The biggest problem concerning "agreeing not to foul" is what happends when two coaches agrees not to foul and one still does. Then the other could start refusing to countinue the game or refuse to upload or something silly like that. And who is right when things like that happends (if it would be legal to agree not to foul)?
And if the fouled coach could refuse to upload the game, could other things allow coaches to refuse to upload (what happends if two coaches agrees not to block/blitz just to score a lot of tds and to harvest huge amounts of SPP without any dangers? Or two coaches agreeing on wich one who is going to win the game? And why would that be illegal when agreeing not to foul isn´t?). So admins would have a lot of more work looking trough games and agreeing when a couch "rightly" can refuse to upload (otherwise all loosing coaches would refuse to upload). And that would mean a lot of disgruntled admins and probably a lot of disgruntled coaches that think that the admins screwed them over when they allowed/not allowed another player to not upload a game or vice versa.
I myself dont like fouling much (I mostly only foul one turners and claw/fang players) but I for one think that agreeing on not to foul isn´t worth it. A strict rule that "agreeing not to foul" is against the rules is far more easy to handle for the whole comunity than forcing the admins to meddle in all *whine*We agreed not to foul and he did it anyway*whine* conflicts.
And all this post comes from someone that really hates fouling. But it is part of the game and thats why it MUST be allowed.
Sorry for my bad english. |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 11:39 |
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the problem comes with teams not fouling to get an advantage for their teams over all the other coaches who play fairly |
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SoulClaw
Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 12:52 |
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i dont see the big problem here...
GW has written Fouling in as a part of the game (it is within rules of gameplay) even as stated as illegal. but as all sure know there are rules regarding fouling and penalties for comitting the evil deed.. There are even skills "dirty player" that envolves fouling.. As i wrote before, it IS a part of the game right back from first edition. if a coach resort to evil tactics it is his privilege, however you have the choice of not playing that guy again if you dont like getting fouled.
fouling in the 2nd half 8turn as last player is another matter, as the opponent cant foul back! "that is unfair sportsmanship" |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Jun 29, 2004 - 13:10 |
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I never sit in chat and purposefully agree a non fouling game. I do however often tell my opponent that i dont foul and that i dont like fouling (my woodelf teams lose enough players normally thank you!).
Basically I find that I rarely if ever actually need to foul anyway - why dother with a risky action that may removes your players from the game when you could concentrate on scoring instead. Even dwarfs dont need to foul bashing does just fine. 
As someone said there are good times to foul like against 1 turners (stops those dull tactics) or against some claw, RSC, po monster who is going to kill your team.
The current fouling rules are broken as evidenced by the vault rules (which cant be implamented soo enough btw) the possibility of players missing next game for fouls will hopefully cut down on the ecsessive power of fouling, as will the changing of dirty player (overpowered since i can remember)
The obvious way to solve this problem in the meantime would be to quickly setup the vault rules league on fumbbl and have it affect your coaches rating in the same way as ranked. Then all the people who hate being stamped on can go and play with the new and improved rules (well thats the theory folks), and the people who like washing the blood off the pitch after every game can play in open as per usual  
I do agree though that under the current rules agreeing not to foul is harmfull to the league (my god i'm agreeing with Grum!? ) I dont like playing against super teams either thanks!
The other obvious way to solve this as has been suggested before is a option on each coaches page which has their views on fouling. This way you can check before a game what Wuhan is likely to do to your team if you dont already know 
I realise people will just lie but it may give some of us a good idea in most games.
Bloodbowl should be fun for both players and in my personal opinion playing a game against three of your sullen, angry opponents linemen is boring. I may as well play solitaire 
Dont moan at me because you think im not accepting it as a valid tactic IT IS, its just an exceptionally boring one like 1 turners.
Sorry about the length and play nice kids |
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Tank
Joined: Sep 06, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 13:27 |
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Oh Great!
Now where debating not only the merits and morality of fouling but also the actual legality gamewise...we shore do cover all angles.
I wonder if this is simple enough;
1) You cant orginise a foul free game, because its called "cheating"
2)If you like to, you can lay the boot in as much as possible due to the simple fact "Its part of the game"
3)Sorry if i come across a little Derogatory. i just realised, im out of smokes |
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Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 14:40 |
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I cant believe another thread has gone into the *ooh dont foul me i will cry debate*
40k equivalent = Agreeing not to shoot eachothers tanks.......
As for the agreeing not to foul...........grum has already Put forward a Good case...... However its like those Elf teams that only play Elves............... |
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AvatarDM
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 15:15 |
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Well, I have a new one: Let's allow coaches to restart the game if one rolles the handicap "Illegal Drugs", well, because the drugs are illegal... |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 15:31 |
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| Quote: |
the problem comes with teams not fouling to get an advantage for their teams over all the other coaches who play fairly
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That arguement holds no water in an open system like FUMBBL. Coaches that play all elves have an advantage (injury wise) over coaches that play orcs and dwarves (Zy said as much right above here). Do you have a rule against that? I'd agree with you in a closed league/tourney, but not here.
Inquisit had the most insightful post on the thread above. We can probably lock the thread after that.
If 2 coaches state to each other before the game they are not big fans of fouling .....so be it. They are not fixing a game, just "chatting" about the type of game they like. If coach A then gets the ref and starts fouling .....so be it. The point is, if you are Coach B don't expecte to be able to go to an admin and say "Coach A says he doesn't like fouling and fouled me anyway!".
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I cant believe another thread has gone into the *ooh dont foul me i will cry debate*
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I believe this is a result of the current fouling/DP rules being broken. People complained about PO as well before it got neutered (sp?). The gang rape foul with a DP is so broken compared to the other damage inflicting skills. Almost a 50% chance for a BH/SI/RIP vs AV8. Just not balanced. |
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JoeKano
Joined: Aug 30, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 15:38 |
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As I see it, the point pof the post is that you can't agree to not foul. You as an individual can choose to not foul, but don't expect or require your opponent to do the same. Sounds simple, now back to the pitch! |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jun 29, 2004 - 16:03 |
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Perhaps the message board isn't the best place for me to talk on this. I'll welcome any discussion during a game or in chat if anyone wants to further talk on it.
Lord Real and Grumbldook, you points on making life easier on admins and establishing competitive uniformity are understood. I'm now convinced agreeing not to foul is a good rule that should be enforced.
I like fouling. It's part of the game. I don't do it much b/c so many times my opponent calls me "unethical", "lame", or "unsportsmanlike". That tells me my opponent isn't having fun and then I feel like the game is a waste of time. As a result, I've stopped fouling unless fouled first. This makes me feel like I've been coerced into violating this rule.
So I leave that question to the admins. Is verbally coercing your opponent to not foul you a violation of this rule (making someone agree not to foul you).
well, that being said. Time to report to the recycling center : (
(Arktoris is obliterated)
Initiating activating sequence on Arktoris clone #1.... |
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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 18:01 |
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Excuse me to change slightly the subject but imagine this. Mr Supercoach and I discuss on the chat. I say let's play against my tiny elves. He says "ok". But I connect myself with chaos players and 11 dity players ( I try to link it with the subsject). What happens next? |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jun 29, 2004 - 18:08 |
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You didnt connect with the agreed upon team and thus supercoach does not have to play you. |
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