Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Jul 09, 2013 - 23:12 |
 
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I am really tempted to start a necro team and go for a major win with it now... |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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| Posted:
Jul 09, 2013 - 23:26 |
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The issues I have had with necro teams is both the flesh golems and the ghouls. Flesh Golems die less often -- but they take *forever* to skill up...so very very hard to have good Flesh Golems and good ghouls and keep them through a major.
Thus it seems you have to build your team around 2 Werewolves and 2 Wights.
1st Werewolf would ideally have +AG and be your ballcarrier
2nd Werewolf would ideally have at least 1 double for MB and be primary blitzer
1st Wight would ideally be all-purpose with Guard, Dodge, and whatever else is needed.
2nd Wight would ideally be elf killer with MBPO tackle.
A horde of zombies to shield your 4 main players.
Then the question that I just do not know is: do you take rookie FGs and Ghouls? Or do you just stay at low TV and use inducements?
However, lets be honest...can even a mythical perfect Necro team defeat some of the better Ranked major teams? To the topranked is going to trash any necro team. (Well, add back in the 2 skilled catchers and treeman they lost last game and those Wood Elves would destroy any Necro I would imagine.) |
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Luohghcra
Joined: Nov 18, 2008
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| Posted:
Jul 09, 2013 - 23:45 |
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| Rabe wrote: | | I am really tempted to start a necro team and go for a major win with it now... |
Despite the odds that appear stacked against them, I'm kinda tempted to.
Do I smell the creation of another metagroup?
Would it help to have large numbers of necro suddenly swarming the majors?
Which coach/es have the best chance of running necro to the top? Would they bother?
Funnily, theres been a longish discussion of the relative merits or flaws of necro teams on the SWL forums recently. I think the gist of it was 'Necro are scrappy'.
I take this to mean they would need a good run, regen to keep the stars alive, and for all the stupidly supercharged Woodie teams to get smooshed by Dorfs early on.... |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Jul 09, 2013 - 23:52 |
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Hehe, a meta-group for necros (or all forlorn races, though I like necros only more) would be fun. Earning points for each round they advance in a major or something like that. Exchanging experiences and advice. Why not? |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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Jul 09, 2013 - 23:57 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Balle2000 wrote: | | Sorry about this. I will try harder. |
So are you admitting you are taking some personeal blame in this Necro malfunction in majors?   |
I said I'm sorry. Back to the laboratory/drawing board to rebuild these girls for next major.
@Rabe: count me in |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Jul 10, 2013 - 00:01 |
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I'd certainly not administer it.  Just be in as a regular member. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Jul 10, 2013 - 00:21 |
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Necros are a team full of blitzers in a world full of blockers.
Think about it... the puppies and wights tend to be built for violence. Ghouls are fragile. That leaves a bunch of MA 4 players to protect your 4 blitzers.
Orcs munch them. Rats outrun them and elves outposition them.
If you can't beat those three races, you can't win a major.
__Synn |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2013 - 00:22 |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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Jul 10, 2013 - 00:28 |
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| Azure wrote: | The issues I have had with necro teams is both the flesh golems and the ghouls. Flesh Golems die less often -- but they take *forever* to skill up...so very very hard to have good Flesh Golems and good ghouls and keep them through a major.
Thus it seems you have to build your team around 2 Werewolves and 2 Wights.
1st Werewolf would ideally have +AG and be your ballcarrier
2nd Werewolf would ideally have at least 1 double for MB and be primary blitzer
1st Wight would ideally be all-purpose with Guard, Dodge, and whatever else is needed.
2nd Wight would ideally be elf killer with MBPO tackle.
A horde of zombies to shield your 4 main players.
Then the question that I just do not know is: do you take rookie FGs and Ghouls? Or do you just stay at low TV and use inducements?
However, lets be honest...can even a mythical perfect Necro team defeat some of the better Ranked major teams? To the topranked is going to trash any necro team. (Well, add back in the 2 skilled catchers and treeman they lost last game and those Wood Elves would destroy any Necro I would imagine.) |
I had a near-perfect Necro team in the last major. A cpomb wofl, a +MA +AG carrier wolf, a +ST jugs pomber wight, and reasonable enough 'rest of team'. Sadly Nuffle intervened [+ST wight died on a risky surf] and then with just 1 basher [not enough] I got outplayed by a very good Slann coach in the qualifier final. I doubt I'll ever have such a good chance [and a slim one at that] again with Necros in a major.
Even then I would have had next-to-no hope in the finals. TSH are so well built, and then there's that 946 WD too. Plus the rest of the top teams/coaches that made it [all better players than I]. Winning a major with Necros will require a lot of good fortune, even with a very strong build. Once 1 or 2 main players are out, they have little to fall back on, and that is punishing in a 2-tier tournament. |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Jul 10, 2013 - 01:59 |
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Okay - here is my ideal Necro team:
Werewolf: Block, Dodge, +AG, Sidestep, Sure Hands (120 + 120)
Werewolf: Block, Dodge, MB, PO, JU, Tackle (120 + 140)
Flesh Golem: Block, Guard, MB (120 + 60)
Flesh Golem: Block, Guard, MB (120 + 60)
Wight: Guard, Tackle, MB, Dodge (90 + 90)
Wight: MB, PO, Tackle, Frenzy, JUG, Jump Up (90 + 130)
Ghoul: Block, Sure Hands (70 + 40)
Ghoul: Wrestle, Stripball, Tackle (70 + 60)
7 Zombies: 2xDP (280 + 40)
FF: 10 (100)
3 RRs (210)
Total TV: 2130
Not sure - seems reasonable - has some depth...a few skills on the ghouls means that they are more disposable backup pieces - not integral to success. But honestly - not so sure this would work. Really seems like a necro team that could challenge for a major would need some sort of extraordinary stat freaks. Like a ST 5 AG 4 blodge wolf. Or a AG 5 leap stripball wight.
It would take a truly special team guided by an experienced and good coach to contend. |
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B_SIDE
Joined: Apr 24, 2008
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Jul 10, 2013 - 02:23 |
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What if the missing piece is actually the zombies? I mean, zombie linemen can only tie up longbeards for so long. They might eventually be called upon to do something more than take hits. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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Jul 10, 2013 - 02:38 |
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To be honest, even an average elf team like my non-tournament fun team is going to take a necro team to pieces. Necro can certianly bash hard enough to make elves think twice before playing them in ranked, but their lack of team speed and inability to dodge through elf screens make them a pretty easy mark for actual wins and losses.
I think the skaven matchup is significantly better for the necros. Tackle/Frenzy/mighty blow can be really bad news for an exposed gutter runner, and it's significantly easier to protect wights from stormvermin than from Wardancers. My record against necro with my two 100-game teams is a small sample, but supports these observations. 4-0 with Wood Elves, 1-2 with Skaven.
I don't play necro, so I can't speak to how they do against Str4 bash or clawpomb. I'm sure the regeneration helps a lot, but I have a feeling a chaos coach with a faceroll squad would be pretty happy to see necro coming. Like all the hybrid teams, they seem to have a sweetspot, which is not 2000tv. I would lay money on humans winning a major before Necro, simply because they are so much stronger against elves and skaven. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jul 10, 2013 - 02:57 |
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I have to agree with the sentiment that necros top out at too low of a TV to really be a threat in a big time tourney.
They maybe great at lower TVs, and decent at mid TVs, but at high TVs... well they just don't really bring enough to the table to compete with the top races.
FGs are utterly meh, ghouls are wimps, and wolves lose their luster when the other side packs enough tackle/MB to keep on popping them out.
Wights are fine for what they are, but they essentially orc blitzers with regen who cost 10k more. But, you only get 2 of them, and orcs get 4 (or 5 with a troll) ST4 players to do the scruming.
Zombies are great cheap fodder, but they only last so long, and frankly, once they start skilling they start to lose their value and just add to bloat. Regen will keep them around longer, but just getting knocked off for a drive is frequently bad enough as it starts to expose the better players to more attacks.
That said, it would be interesting to see some mega statted necro, like we see some mega statted WEs and such. I'm sure a St5 Ag4 wolf could be quite a handful. |
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DonnyRainboe
Joined: Sep 13, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2013 - 09:00 |
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Think i got my Necros to the semi or quarter finals of the black cup I believe. Beating Bill's WMD the game before we where put out to a TV 2410+150k Nurgle team.
The game in question
| Quote: | I got beat like i stole something. I think the cas count and score line didn´t really show the difference in skills between the two teams; cause the nurgles heavily outclassed us.
Black Valley coach is said to be delighted to get this deep into a major. It is rumored he regrets buying replacement positions once the tournament started and should have just listened to Ribalt who only wanted more zombie meatshields to protect him. |
Only two players currently survive from that team, interestingly enough one is the AG+ Wight Aitor
Not played in a long time. I Do have another Box necro team Nostrus that was going for a Jr. Sprint long time ago that are in position to make a run.
| Quote: | This team as always played without the Golums. We have developed 3 players which horde the SSP on the team. One killer wolf, on defensive diving taking wolf and a star ghoul ballcarrier.
We did have a strength 4 zombie that finally got block then died via foul. The very next game we lose to Wood elfs.
The sprint was 15-1-0 in the Junior 1400-1800k range. Our one tie was vs Vampires where i dominated the game from start to finish but couldn't stop them scoring, I think maybe i should have not stalled in the first half.
We will be back for another Sprint season in March. |
This team has Dodge, +AG, +MA, Block, +MA, Side Step ghoul and can potentially one turn score with the 4 skill position players i have on the field. Might give it a go next major, but I'm probably still banned for not playing in last tourney i signed up for. |
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King_Ghidra
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Jul 10, 2013 - 10:55 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | To answer the OP :-
Honestly? The best coaches don't play them. That's it in a nutshell. |
I'm glad you pitched up, because I think Pig Sty Alley are awesome, and I can't help thinking you've been rather outrageously unlucky in losing three qualifier finals. As you imply though, I think if some of the other top coaches looked at building tourney Necros we'd soon see a couple of stat-freak-loaded teams in the mix and ready to rumble. |
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