harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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 Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 19:57 |
 
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| mrt1212 wrote: | By getting things together, you do mean what I think you mean, right?
Superbowl Ads. |
Garion has spent a lot of money on portraits for everyone's benefit. Secret League is pretty much a thankless task that will go on for infinity.
Man Koadah's casting hard to get more fighting fish biting at this topic. None of the hooks have tempted though.  |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:01 |
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| Garion wrote: | Licker, your idea is too easy to exploit. I will make a pact, chaos dwarf and chaos team. Solved.
Ban that you say. You must have races of different categories
Ok I will make a proper chaos team then make a tv 100 ogre team so it never gets a game, and a tv 200 goblin team so it never gets a game.
Ban that as well I hear you say.
Sounds like an awful lot of work for unpaid admin. |
Would you personally do that and if so would you just do that to prove your point that griefers can grief or you wont be told what to do?
Cause I'll create teams to play you at that level.
Even more hilariously, to counter grief someone could just create teams at that level to match with you and then just hold up your ability to activate until you play that game. Wait until they are forced by admin to play and then when playing basically take 4 minute turns every turn irrelevant of action. 2/3rds of your games will result in 6 day and 120 minute+ games. How committed is a griefer to griefing? |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %09, %2014 - %20:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:05 |
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No I wouldn't personally do that, anyone that knows me at all will know I refuse to take pile on and have done for over a year now and have never had a min max cheese team. My point is there are people out there that will always game the system. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Apr 09, 2014 - 20:12 |
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Well I think it is time to throw a match on this thread and blow this up.
Dump 5 gallons of gas on top of all this and strike the match
MERGE RANKED AND BOX!!!
Allow all open play teams to pick and choose to enter the scheduler every 15 minutes or arrange matches on the game finder.
Solves every single issue related to getting a match.
Oh, calm down out there, you guys on the back bench stop screaming and yelling and sit down, let me finish.
I do not care about “purity” of majors and all that. Let the tournament staff figure that one out .
I do not care about the purity of the minors…Dittos to the above.
I don’t care about Koadah’s sprints. Sprints are an elitist Box thing anyway. He could run sprints and so forth in Ranked but he does not because he is a box superiority elitist to the core.
Merging covers the most important aspect of open play….I WANT TO GET A MATCH AND PLAY. All the other trappings of the open play divs will be sorted out and off we go.
PainState runs to the hills and dives in his fire proof bunker |
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Comish of the:  |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:12 |
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I know the limitations Garion, and I maintain that the system only works if you get a big enough critical mass of coaches who would do it 'properly'.
It's why I dropped the whole 'forced' part of it. Now if you don't want to do it, just continue to activate your lone team, be it pro elves or min maxed chaos.
If, however, you want to try it, try it. If enough people try it, and like it, and start complaining about the people who don't do it...
Well at some point popular things can get adopted and codified, though really, I'd prefer it not to go to that point, it's about changing the mentality of coaches in how they look at Box.
It will likely never happen, I'm not that foolish, but I'm tired of the bickering over proposed changes that you and I know will never come. So, I proposed something that's simple to do and requires no changes to rule sets or extra work for admins.
Do it if you want, don't do it if you don't want. If you don't think there's a diversity problem in Box then fine, this doesn't apply to you. Most people who actually think about it though realize there is a massive diversity problem in box, and the only way to address that currently is individually.
Now, I further recognize that for you europeans this probably doesn't matter so much, you still get draws every quarter hour. For other time zones... we get draws every 2 hours, and when you look at the diversity in those draws... well... it leaves a lot to be desired. So maybe you can say this is just a licker problem because he doesn't play during 'proper' times. And yet we all see the trend is down in Box, eventually this is going to catch up to you as well.
Besides, I completely fail to see the down side to playing 3 teams instead of one team. Other than the obvious 'but, mommy, I only want to eat my crisps!!!'
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:13 |
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| Garion wrote: | Sound like paradise for elves  |
It is, but as established here many times over, people don't care about winning or losing, only their precious mens not dying. And for some reason they think that Elfs should die the same amount or less than crap teams like Chaos!
Scarily I agree with Painstate. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is people getting games the way they want. Do we really need two competitive divisions for that? I don't think so. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:19 |
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| licker wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | Garion wrote: |
Koadah - out of interest what would voodoo Mike like thinks to be like? |
What? You want him to roast me for misrepresenting his ideas?
Ask yourself. "Do you really, really want to know?"  |
I don't recall him ever expressing those opinions here. But that league would probably be incredibly popular, even if it would have to live in L here (which eventually I suppose it could).
| koadah wrote: | Yeah. We'll carry on activating pro elves until people start moaning that there are too many pro elves killing the Box Mr. Green
Are two out of three of your teams still going to be packing claw? Wink |
My personal group of teams isn't ideal, I agree (and yet the 2 claw teams I play, CD and necro, are the most 'balanced' of the claw teams available, not counting Norse of course), but it was my 1st attempt at at least adding to diversity personally. I'll amend it eventually, though I have less time for Box now, and frankly, NA evenings it's pretty much dead with a draw every 2 hours or so, so meh.
Otherwise, keep on missing my point. No one cares if you play your ARR races, true, but only activating one team is still hindering diversity. Why not just make 3 ARR teams then? Why not change your scoring system?
Lots of answers to your complaints, if you don't want to do those things that's fine, it's your choice, but you have to stop pretending that there are not simple solutions to your issues as well. |
The argument with you that brought me into this was that the 3 teams probably wouldn't do too much to help.
When two out of three of your activations are teams from the top five most activated races you are not really doing that much for diversity.
CDs are played more than 5 times as often as elf. Necros 4 times, DEs twice as often.
For sure, definitions of diversity vary but I'd say that our single teams are still doing more for diversity than your 3.
We're giving people something they don't see very often. as opposed to just another variation on the same old, same old.
As I said before the diversity at low TV isn't that bad anyway. The issue if for the longer lived teams. How about you don't activate the CDs & necros that people are sick and tired of and try getting something else to 50 games. Then I would take your idea seriously.
That is why I liked the potion at 100 games for ARR teams. An incentive to keep going rather than just keeping the CPOMB teams going and restarting/parking the 'abandoned' teams. |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:22 |
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I also think a lot of people need to try the new and improved box. I believe min max low tv bashing has been solved which was it's biggest problem. Admittedly I have only played 2 games so far. Both with pro elves and I got 1 game vs orcs and 1 vs pro elves both were fair both were great fun. Lets all give the new box a good run before we make any knee jerk reactions . It might already drive greater diversity in the long run. Let's wait and see |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:28 |
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luckyjim12
Joined: Aug 29, 2012
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:35 |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:43 |
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Yeah that sucks but you got him at just the wrong time, you were unlucky really, give him a few more games and he will be forced to play teams against tv1500+ and he will get squished. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:43 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | Garion wrote: | | Sound like paradise for elves |
It is, but as established here many times over, people don't care about winning or losing, only their precious mens not dying. And for some reason they think that Elfs should die the same amount or less than crap teams like Chaos!
Scarily I agree with Painstate. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is people getting games the way they want. Do we really need two competitive divisions for that? I don't think so. |
Are you saying that CAS suffered has no relevance on competitiveness both in game at the moment of CAS and over the long term in having to replace CAS players?
I know you see this only as a pixel hugging argument but cmon, dig a little bit deeper. Most people aren't worried about player losses because they treat their elves like part of the family, its because of the perception that it affects competitiveness - I will argue that getting locked into a cycle of journeymen at the expense of death/perms can do that. Again, I wish we could investigate the relationship between journeymen/deaths and win/losses.
For Sticky Green BBL - I have 11 games, 5 regular player deaths, 2 journeymen deaths. These facts only frustrate me because fielding 2-3 loners every game puts me at distinct competitive disadvantage against similar TV teams.
American Ratiators II - 3 games, 5 deaths (2 GRs, 1 RO, 2 Linerats). This team is basically dead, right? I only hate the deaths here because I didn't even get a chance to try out different things and its hard to compete and rebuild with 1 GR and 1 SV. Winning obviously helps with rebuilding but a team like this is stuck in a catch 22. I'll continue to play it because it'll be good to get some experience in playing with 1 GR and 1 SV but still - other people are frustrated not because of some special bond but because some circumstances are distinctly harder to recover from than others.
Compartmentalizing some of this stuff might be easier but it's not accurate. |
Last edited by mrt1212 on %b %09, %2014 - %20:%Apr; edited 1 time in total |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:47 |
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I have used Elves before with loads of journeyman. It's fine.
And believe me, it's much easier to recover from the loss of skilled players with Elves than it is with Chaos etc. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:51 |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Apr 09, 2014 - 20:52 |
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| JimmyFantastic wrote: | | I have used Elves before with loads of journeyman. It's fine. |
Look Jimmy, all you're doing is saying whats fine for you is fine for everybody in different ways.
Why can't you see you're an exceptional person whose attitude and outlook on the game are obviously not reflected at large? |
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