FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:39

my rules.

do away with the two biggest problems in bloodbowl. Team race bias and being able to pick skills (killer combos are always causing the urge to change skills abilities)

all races gone. just two teams, good and evil.

human/orc 6 3 3 8 none G and secret weapons (bombs/chainsaw/stab on 12+ roll) 50k
dwarf/chaos dwarf 4 3 2 9 block tackle thick skull GS 70k
bret. knight/chaos warrior 5 4 3 9 none GS + mutations/virtues 100K
High elf / dark elf 6 3 4 8 none GA 70k
wood elf / gutter runner 8 2 3 7 catch dodge GA 70k
pro elf / skaven 6 3 3 7 sure hands pass GP 70k
skink / skeleton 5 3 2 7 regenerate G 40k
halfing / goblin 6 2 3 7 stunty right stuff dodge A and secret weapons (all weapons on 11+) 40k
Treeman / troll 4 5 1 9 mightyblow stupidity TTM regenerate loner S 110k

all players are 0-16 on roster

all when a player gains a new skill, it is rolled randomly. Every third skill, chosen.

un-nerf fouling. keep all else the same except let hypnotic gaze etc be mutations/virtues too.

this will kill 99% of the problems bloodbowl has had for the last 15 years.

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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz

pythrr

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:45

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

no it doesn't. it just involved getting a clawpomb and playing 30 games

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PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:45

Lets look at the legends under CRP.

Almost a majority of them fall under the CPOMB or POMB skill set. Over the course of 60-90 games it is very easy to obtain legend with that skill set. Sure, you need some luck over the course of those matches on the CAS rolls against your player but in the big picture this is easy. Easy in the sense that you do not have to force feed him SPP to push him over the top.

Bashers by nature just accumulate SPP. Elves and non bashers on the other hand you have to force feed them TD's, which means, you can only score a finite amount each match. Bashers on the other hand can get 20-30 CAS over the course of 10 games on just their killers and give the TD's to their non bash team mates. Thus once a bash type player hits his sweet spot of PO/MB or CMBPO you can just let him do his thing and focus your SPP onto other players.

Here is a hair brain idea.

YOU NO LONGER GET SPP FOR INFLICTING A CAS

Instead we bring back a old BB 2ed mechanic. Every player who plays in a match, at the end of the match they get 1 SPP.

If that was implemented it would change dramatically how you approach to building up a team. It would not prevent a team from going the path of KILL ALL PIXELS it would just slow their SPP growth on their killers.

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Comish of the:

Last edited by PainState on %b %08, %2016 - %20:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

Matthueycamo

Joined: May 16, 2014

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:46

The trouble is I think some people are searching for something that I don't believe was originally planned, that being a game that is really balanced. The game is I feel originally purposefully unbalanced and seeking to change that up losses it's essence.

Most of these issues are down to the Box/Ranked environments. The rules were not written for them. I think they work pretty well for perpetual leagues though. Really the thing is people just have to accept it's never going to be optimal for those environments and live with that. It's going to be optimised for tournaments, normal leagues and one off games. What is mostly played on the TT.

pythrr

Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:49

i ahve to agree with Arktoris --- random skills would rock.

and no SPPs for a cas is a interesting idea. i really like that, to be honest. maybe give SPPs for a kill? (via CAS or BOOT, as they are special).

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Wreckage

Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:52

harvestmouse wrote:

Wreckage wrote:

I disagree with the bank rule. After tons of playtesting I can pretty confidently say that although it may look bad on paper, money is a complete non issue. It could become one if introduced. Don't fix what's not broken. If there was a bank rule it should be set really really high, at the very least no less than 500k g.

Well with 500k GP it's kind of pointless having a bank rule at all. You're also not looking at other reasons why a bank would be useful. For me, using JM with a large bank isn't how the game should be played. It's aesthetically terrible and off putting to fluff players (which new players tend to be).

Again I think it's a band aid fix and a negative one. So I'd rather look at a more appealing and popular way of combatting the problem (I consider it a problem, of course you do not).

The thing I really like about the mechanics is that they work. And not just work, they work really well. The problem is that 'the problem' just straight out isn't a problem at all.
Coaches shouldn't be punished for managing their treasury. It's in fact very stabilizing for the game that there is a way to aquire long term ressources to get replacements.
Removing this possibility would only accomplish to make playing the game a less pleasant experience and much more random due to the increased severity of cas.

Will a team with 0g be a massive underdog against a team with a million?
Not even close.
If you induce the count, the other team gets half a million for free. And so on. Your only advantage of doing that is that you get to decide on the timing. You do not gain an actual headstart. But that is actually fair because... well... one team saved up half a million, the other team didn't and then the money is gone.
It's not going to break the game, it's not going to do anything. It is as i said a completely made up issue from people who just can't accept that it simply doesn't matter.

Last edited by Wreckage on %b %08, %2016 - %20:%Feb; edited 2 times in total

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 20:52

Matthueycamo wrote:

What is mostly played on the TT.

BINGO!!!

That right there is in essence the problem with CRP. It was written for the Table Top game and leagues run in the back room of a game shop where teams only play 1 game every week and the season is over in 8 weeks.

Then you make a new team for the next league.

OR, lets have a massive TT tournament in Italy and play 6 games. CRP works great for this.

CRP has so much stuff in it that makes no sense what so every for FUMBBL.

It was almost like they just threw stuff in the rules for leagues like FUMBBL just so they can have some rules on open perpetual play, which those rules stink.

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Comish of the:

Wreckage

Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:04

Matthueycamo wrote:

Most of these issues are down to the Box/Ranked environments.

Ranked is very similar to the way the rulebook suggests leagues should be run as some sort of open playground where everybody plays everybody and in the end people have to show from a list that they racked up 5 wins against somebody and then are able to participate in a knockout final.

Quote:

The game is I feel originally purposefully unbalanced and seeking to change that up losses it's essence.

It absolutely is. That's because the game is from the 80ies and in the 80ies game designers didn't understand yet the importance of balance.
Since games have developed and are on a qualitatively higher level. There is no point in staying behind out of some misunderstood nostalgia for poor game dynamics.

Quote:

It's going to be optimised for tournaments, normal leagues and one off games. What is mostly played on the TT.

The game already has been optimized for places like fumbbl. It just didn't work perfectly well the very first time they tried. Which isn't that terribly suprising. How often do you get it completely right the first time?
Overall CRP is such a massive improvement over LRB4. They did a really good job.

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:07

PainState wrote:

OR, lets have a massive TT tournament in Italy and play 6 games. CRP works great for this.

Well, why does it work great?

Because that style tournament does not have to play with.

*CPOMB is out
*POMB only on Big Guys
*Inducements are out the window
*No spiraling expenses
* No need to worry about gold
* No need to worry about team buiding long term
* No need to worry about roster balance since only 8-10 races show up.
* No need to worry about TV since all the teams are in essence the exact same TV.
* And last but not least....No need to worry about any of the problems of CRP as it relates to FUMBLL because it is not allowed or does not apply.

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Comish of the:

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:09

mrt1212 wrote:

There should be a reward for commitment to dealing with people like you, I think legendary players is sufficient.

So, now arguing with me on FUMBBL forums gives people's players SPPs?
Very Happy

New meta is rising...

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:12

pythrr wrote:

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

no it doesn't. it just involved getting a clawpomb and playing 30 games

How is this a "too many legends too easily" problem? It's a cpomb problem through and through. I guess you grognards don't want to see a legend pogoer or goblin troll.

Matthueycamo

Joined: May 16, 2014

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:16

PainState wrote:

Lets look at the legends under CRP.

Almost a majority of them fall under the CPOMB or POMB skill set. Over the course of 60-90 games it is very easy to obtain legend with that skill set. Sure, you need some luck over the course of those matches on the CAS rolls against your player but in the big picture this is easy. Easy in the sense that you do not have to force feed him SPP to push him over the top.

Bashers by nature just accumulate SPP. Elves and non bashers on the other hand you have to force feed them TD's, which means, you can only score a finite amount each match. Bashers on the other hand can get 20-30 CAS over the course of 10 games on just their killers and give the TD's to their non bash team mates. Thus once a bash type player hits his sweet spot of PO/MB or CMBPO you can just let him do his thing and focus your SPP onto other players.

Here is a hair brain idea.

YOU NO LONGER GET SPP FOR INFLICTING A CAS

Instead we bring back a old BB 2ed mechanic. Every player who plays in a match, at the end of the match they get 1 SPP.

If that was implemented it would change dramatically how you approach to building up a team. It would not prevent a team from going the path of KILL ALL PIXELS it would just slow their SPP growth on their killers.

That's the thing 60 plus games. Playing that many games with the same team on the TT must be incredibly rare.

Maybe they should have custom SPP option in the rules? Then FUMBBL could have it's own SPP regime. I think that's partly in custom league plans right? Allowing the commish to set them for the number of SPP to get to a level. So add to that allowing them to pick how many SPP an action gets also. So different regimes could also be set for Box and Ranked. So maybe A Legend takes 500 SPP CAS are Worth 2 and a TD is worth 7 Fouls are worth 1 for a injury caused, interceptions are worth 10 because they are so rare etc. I don't know exactly but something could be worked out to make those types of Legends harder to get whilst not making it any harder to get the other types of legends.

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:22

A slight tweak to CLPOMB reducing its power OR reducing the ability to SPAM it.

Weight skill choices differently. Not an automatic amount for all skills but slightly more weight for the best skills and/or slightly less weight or the weaker skills. Could bring in more variety if it cost a little more for the most efficient skills and some of the weaker skills didn't cost so much.

Fouling is too weak... but I think the random nature of getting caught is OK. The problem is it isn't worth the risk of getting caught most of the time.
I like that a sneaky git could at least gain a chance 50%/50% at least of getting their sentence reduced from BAN to KO... maybe automatically to KO Box would be fine.

Bring back the 7th Skill roll... why get rid of it in the 1st place?

Bring back some kind of Ageing but don't let it take place until after the 4th skill.

Change the Elf Rosters around so they are not so cookie cutter/similar. Make DE's or Pro's a Wrestle based team instead of Block with their Blitzers maybe. idk

The ruleset is good. But it needs some tweaks.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:26

mrt1212 wrote:

pythrr wrote:

mrt1212 wrote:

I dont get the need for aging to be honest. Legends require you sacrifice a huge amount of time, distributing SPPs unevenly subverting skill advancement on teammates and the reward for that is right in line with that commitment.

no it doesn't. it just involved getting a clawpomb and playing 30 games

How is this a "too many legends too easily" problem? It's a cpomb problem through and through. I guess you grognards don't want to see a legend pogoer or goblin troll.

How much often do we see legend pogoers and trolls?
How much often do we see legend clawpombers instead?
While a legend pogoer is not so problematic, hard to achieve and he's easy to kill or injure, a legend clawpomber is problematic, relatively easy to have and quite game breaking, especially if you have more than one legend clawpomber on your team.
Mind, even non-clawpomb legends like one turners and stat freaks are troublesome, but generally speaking you are going to see legend clawpombers most often.

Last edited by MattDakka on %b %08, %2016 - %21:%Feb; edited 1 time in total

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Feb 08, 2016 - 21:26

Wreckage wrote:

It absolutely is. That's because the game is from the 80ies and in the 80ies game designers didn't understand yet the importance of balance.
Since games have developed and are on a qualitatively higher level. There is no point in staying behind out of some misunderstood nostalgia for poor game dynamics.

On the other hand people seeking balance above all else as if that's the holy grail of gaming are insufferable. Fighting games and MOBAs attract the worst kind of gamers.