kummo
Joined: Mar 29, 2016
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 Posted:
Mar 10, 2017 - 18:33 |
 
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| thoralf wrote: | | The 0-12 Chaos Pact may be the only exception to the 0-16 linemen slot. |
There is 0-12 to Underworld Goblins too.
(And Bonobos if you want to count Simyin)..
| thoralf wrote: | | or 0-6 for vamps |
Chaos Dorf Blockers. Ogres. Lizardmen. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Mar 10, 2017 - 18:45 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: |
Wow, I had no idea Araby was so bad lol. I thought it was just me with my CIBBL team.
Don't know how to make them better but sticking to the theme though. |
It was quite evident: a mostly AG 3 ST 3 team without Block generally is not good. |
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neubau
Joined: Nov 12, 2016
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| Posted:
Mar 10, 2017 - 18:52 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: | Wow, I had no idea Araby was so bad lol. I thought it was just me with my CIBBL team.
Don't know how to make them better but sticking to the theme though. |
More than a third of their games were played by two coaches with less than stellar records, so I don't think they are as underpowered as the percentage here makes them seem.
And like Matt said, many of the SL teams start without the risk minimizing skills block and/or dodge. In combination with the mostly low TV games in SL open play thats a harsh combination. |
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Azure
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
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Mar 10, 2017 - 19:57 |
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Demons of Khonre are fine - the only reason to play the team is because of the big guy - leave him alone, or you ruin the fun of the team. This was the perfect team for LittleOrc - he loves them - even won 8 times! His team. So I would say - who cares if the big guy is uber powerful - let people have some fun!
Nippon are fine - some people think the claw is overkill...but claw on a player without other skill and AV 7 and no S access...you need to somehow keep them alive, skill them up...and get some doubles. That is more of a pipe dream than reality. I think the player is actually more of a red herring than anything else. It is cute, but they are fine - leave them along.
Northern Nippon are fine - the Oni rocks when compared to other big guys...but you have to compare the whole team, not just 1 player from the team. They are demon worshiping - so apparently the Oni is more powerful demon than a simple Mino...sounds fine to me!
Pygmies need help - okay, so everything else is fine - but pygmies are super fun - and super impossible to keep alive. They need an across the board price drop. Does that make them overpowered...maybe...but they still die - and unable to keep your players alive and have a bench is their weakness. So give them some cheaper players - because they are too much fun to have them sit on the shelf with few people playing them! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 10, 2017 - 20:07 |
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| Azure wrote: |
Pygmies need help - okay, so everything else is fine - but pygmies are super fun - and super impossible to keep alive. They need an across the board price drop. Does that make them overpowered...maybe...but they still die - and unable to keep your players alive and have a bench is their weakness. So give them some cheaper players - because they are too much fun to have them sit on the shelf with few people playing them! |
I'd give Pygmies 0-2 Big Guys, Troglodytes should be the most fitting (Pygmies and Troglodytes hate the Lizardmen).
A team with many Stunty players generally has some Big Guys to tank and punch. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %10, %2017 - %20:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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neubau
Joined: Nov 12, 2016
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Mar 10, 2017 - 20:14 |
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@Azure: All the changes we do here are very little fixes, stuff like adding 10TV to the cost, removing 1MA or something similar. The Khorne Daemons will still be fun for LittleOrc!
Northern Nippon is a better Human team even without the Oni, but again, the changes we have planned are slight and Garion especially mentioned that he wants this team to stay big guy centric.
We still have to take a look at Pygmies, but I agree pretty much with you here. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 10, 2017 - 20:31 |
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| Matthueycamo wrote: | | JellyBelly wrote: | This is a useful page, for anyone not already aware of it. Contains aggregate win/loss data for all of the SL games that have been played on FUMBBL so far. It's worth noting though that the average TVs in general are very low (<1200) and, as neubau mentioned, some of the teams may be skewed by a lot of matches being played by top-level coaches.
Currently, Von Carstein are on the top with 67%, with Water Elementals closely behind on 66%. I know I keep banging on about Von Carstein, but the thing that concerns me here is that their average TV for this data is 1230. Vamps are typically weak at low TV, so I would only expect them to get stronger as their TV increases. |
Wow, I had no idea Araby was so bad lol. I thought it was just me with my CIBBL team.
Don't know how to make them better but sticking to the theme though. |
There are lies, damn lies... |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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| Posted:
Mar 10, 2017 - 20:45 |
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| kummo wrote: | | (And Bonobos if you want to count Simyin). |
I don't.
Thanks for the other examples.
So Nuffle's numbers are 0, 1, 2, 4, 6, 12, and 16.
That's base 7, right? |
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There is always Sneaky Git. |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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Mar 10, 2017 - 20:52 |
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As for the Deamon rosters, I'd suggest cutting positional slots. The Slaanesh D build with six Daemonettes borders OP in my opinion, and SIX Bloodletters - srsly.
Reducing the stunty costs across board would help too. |
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There is always Sneaky Git.
Last edited by thoralf on %b %11, %2017 - %01:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Dach
Joined: Dec 25, 2015
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Mar 10, 2017 - 22:12 |
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Albion:
+1 MA on Woad Berserker
-10k on the Guard
They feel lackluster at the moment and this is a slight buff that can't hurt... MA 5 and frenzy isn't a good combo. Also they have less armor then the guard but the same movement... so I feel the lack of armor should grant the better mobility.
The price is compared to Saurus which why I dropped the Guard, they trade -1 MA and -1 AV for 2 normal skill which should be the same cost.
Araby:
The only thing I see out of place here is the RR cost... 70k on a human team?!?
Would drop to 60k.
Beastmen:
Perfect, nothing to change.
Black Dwarf:
Oh man, dunno what to make of those... I personnaly would change too much thing here. Dwarf with pass and catch? Dwarf blitzer with MA 6 AND AV 9? Too much thing feel out of place. Sorry Garion but we're totally not on the same page for dwarf. 
Bretonnian:
I would simply go for the BB2 roster, which mean switching Knights normal skill access to GAP instead of GS. I think the BB2 roster got RR at 70k but 60k seem fine.
Cathay
Celestial Dragon Monk seem underprice compared to human blitzer, they get sidestep and A access for free basically. Would make them cost +10k.
Monkey Warriors are the same... compared to Norse Runners they cost -20k and get 2 mutations instead of 2 normal skill. Would make them cost +10k.
RR seem out of place at 50k, 60k would feel more okay but I feel they don't need anymore nerf. Kinda hesitant on this one.
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Would continue latter as this is quite time consuming and don't want to make a 2km long post...  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 11, 2017 - 09:01 |
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FYI
Black dwarfs is a direct translation from 2nd ed chaos dwarf.
and you don't pay for skill access. That has no bearing on player cost.
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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Mar 11, 2017 - 09:39 |
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Would it be easier if once we're done with first impressions, we concentrate on one (or just a few) races at a time? There are alot of races, but using the stats and what's been written so far, it's possible to pick some priority races. This thread will grow large and more unorganized without some sort of roadmap.
I do realize that the actual changes will be discussed in a private thread for the group mentioned in the original post. |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 11, 2017 - 15:45 |
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| Shraaaag wrote: | Would it be easier if once we're done with first impressions, we concentrate on one (or just a few) races at a time? There are alot of races, but using the stats and what's been written so far, it's possible to pick some priority races. This thread will grow large and more unorganized without some sort of roadmap.
I do realize that the actual changes will be discussed in a private thread for the group mentioned in the original post. |
Well, a considerable amount of rosters really won't be changed in any way, and there's a selection of rosters of which we have already decided (with Garion's approval) what change will be made.
Perhaps a bit further ahead I will simply give you a list of roster for which decisions have already been made, and/or ones which will not see any change at all.
For right now however, the overall openness of feedback and input of this more open forum is still quite useful to us, and a very insightful remark can always still influence things in our process. |
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ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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Mar 11, 2017 - 15:49 |
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| Garion wrote: | FYI
and you don't pay for skill access. That has no bearing on player cost.
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Maybe it should as it can be a very important part on the overall strength of a player. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 11, 2017 - 17:39 |
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No it shouldn't because it's not part of the official formula that was used to create all official teams. And all secret league teams. |
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