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razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2018 - 18:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I've heard some of this here before... but I'm a fan of Tabletop Minions so I'll post the link here.

A valuable ten and a half minutes for anyone frustrated with their hobby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV3F1AWGI-4

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Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2018 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

I call B.S.

Blaming yourself for things and letting that weigh you down is the worst habit. Not forgiving yourself for a misstep here or there, or leaving something undone, or maybe not giving the unachievable 110% to each and every game or aspect to your hobby... THAT is the problem.

Yes - blaming others isn't a good thing either. We do need to take responsibility for our own actions. But forgive yourself for cry-aye... it's a game and a hobby.
gamelsetlmatch



Joined: Mar 05, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2018 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

The FIRST rule, is to have fun!
I have just as much fun seeing my elves die as my opponent does killing them. I can always build more dudes lol

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2018 - 22:38 Reply with quote Back to top

OH SCRAM THIS SPEAKS TO ME!

I agree fully with the implicit hypothesis here - the worst habit of any wargamer/strategic game player is refusal to accept agency in the outcome of the game when the outcome is negative.

Blaming dice, your team, etc etc is bullshit. There is nothing to grow on from that attitude, nothing to understand, nothing! It's a dead end of growth!

If you can't accept blame when the stakes are a mere game and reflexively ask "what could I do better next go around" then you seem ill suited for BB specifically and for games in general. Part of accepting that is not letting it weigh you down, but I reckon anyone who is in good faith accepting they are the genesis of their troubles will be weighed down less by their outcomes than someone who routinely draws from the "I'm cursed" well.

@Jeffro

I think there is definite heavy overlap between people who are tied to their ego stake in the game and those who are reluctant to see themselves as part of the problem.

Why are so few people willing to say "I suck right now, but I am willing to be a blank slate and improve?"

Why are so few people willing to say "I let myself down in that game by making specific moves"

Because then it would rock a foundation of how they see themselves as competent people. I'm not competent at BB, what else am I not competent at and why should I do something I'm not competent at?

There's of course a paradox, I call it the Anisdrin Paradox where if you reach a certain skill level it is likely that most your losses will involve some dice chicanery. The fault of Anisdrin was being such a miserable person that he could only fixate on the inanity of those losses from his perspective while disallowing the possibility that this is exactly HOW good to great coaches lose games sometimes (or that other coaches are in fact as good as him) and there's nothing to make of it beyond "1/9 games will be dicings in your opponent's favor". He was good enough to lose mostly through dicings but not level headed enough to appreciate that if that is how you categorically lose, you're playing the game pretty dang well. And unfortunately for all you other coaches out there, you aren't as good as Anisdrin was so you don't get to gravy train on the paradox or your perception of dicing. Not getting Pows on your blocks is not a dicing Wink. Whereas he had a legitimate gripe that most his losses came from dicings, he also was winning games at such a steady clip and pulling in tourney trophies that the slim possibilities should have just rolled off his back...but alas.

I mean, a good question to ask yourself is, could you live with winning 66% of your games and at least a 1/6th to 1/9th of those losses are straight dicings and hold your tongue about it? And if you're even close to that mark do you hold your tongue?

I really don't want to toot my own horn here because my gameplay will always be a work in progress and I may never get 'there', but I did so much of what this guy suggests and I like to think it's made me a superior coach to many others, not just tactically, but in getting back from the game what I put in.

I was never in the 'camp of cursed' but I was reluctant to really eat dirt on my outcomes and make up excuses as to why I did it - oh, it's my style, oh, I just wanna goof around. And there are times where that crops up but at this point I'm more aware of when I'm leaning that way and that still doesn't excuse the outcomes. I get exactly what I deserve in farming/goofing/being ridiculous.

I'm sure many of you are aware of just how off the deep end I've gone with my love of Nuffle and elves and the game itself but BB is one of those things in my life that gives me so much feedback on how I'm doing mentally, emotionally, energetically and creatively that I don't even think I'm engaging the game like more than half of you are or ever do. BB as a game is like the dipstick when getting your oil checked - it tells me how my levels are doing Wink
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 30, 2018 - 22:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Bravo mrt1212! Big respect!

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Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 01:07 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
OH SCRAM THIS SPEAKS TO ME!

I agree fully with the implicit hypothesis here - the worst habit of any wargamer/strategic game player is refusal to accept agency in the outcome of the game when the outcome is negative.

Blaming dice, your team, etc etc is bullshit. There is nothing to grow on from that attitude, nothing to understand, nothing! It's a dead end of growth!

If you can't accept blame when the stakes are a mere game and reflexively ask "what could I do better next go around" then you seem ill suited for BB specifically and for games in general. Part of accepting that is not letting it weigh you down, but I reckon anyone who is in good faith accepting they are the genesis of their troubles will be weighed down less by their outcomes than someone who routinely draws from the "I'm cursed" well.

@Jeffro

I think there is definite heavy overlap between people who are tied to their ego stake in the game and those who are reluctant to see themselves as part of the problem.

Why are so few people willing to say "I suck right now, but I am willing to be a blank slate and improve?"

Why are so few people willing to say "I let myself down in that game by making specific moves"

Because then it would rock a foundation of how they see themselves as competent people. I'm not competent at BB, what else am I not competent at and why should I do something I'm not competent at?

There's of course a paradox, I call it the Anisdrin Paradox where if you reach a certain skill level it is likely that most your losses will involve some dice chicanery. The fault of Anisdrin was being such a miserable person that he could only fixate on the inanity of those losses from his perspective while disallowing the possibility that this is exactly HOW good to great coaches lose games sometimes (or that other coaches are in fact as good as him) and there's nothing to make of it beyond "1/9 games will be dicings in your opponent's favor". He was good enough to lose mostly through dicings but not level headed enough to appreciate that if that is how you categorically lose, you're playing the game pretty dang well. And unfortunately for all you other coaches out there, you aren't as good as Anisdrin was so you don't get to gravy train on the paradox or your perception of dicing. Not getting Pows on your blocks is not a dicing Wink. Whereas he had a legitimate gripe that most his losses came from dicings, he also was winning games at such a steady clip and pulling in tourney trophies that the slim possibilities should have just rolled off his back...but alas.

I mean, a good question to ask yourself is, could you live with winning 66% of your games and at least a 1/6th to 1/9th of those losses are straight dicings and hold your tongue about it? And if you're even close to that mark do you hold your tongue?

I really don't want to toot my own horn here because my gameplay will always be a work in progress and I may never get 'there', but I did so much of what this guy suggests and I like to think it's made me a superior coach to many others, not just tactically, but in getting back from the game what I put in.

I was never in the 'camp of cursed' but I was reluctant to really eat dirt on my outcomes and make up excuses as to why I did it - oh, it's my style, oh, I just wanna goof around. And there are times where that crops up but at this point I'm more aware of when I'm leaning that way and that still doesn't excuse the outcomes. I get exactly what I deserve in farming/goofing/being ridiculous.

I'm sure many of you are aware of just how off the deep end I've gone with my love of Nuffle and elves and the game itself but BB is one of those things in my life that gives me so much feedback on how I'm doing mentally, emotionally, energetically and creatively that I don't even think I'm engaging the game like more than half of you are or ever do. BB as a game is like the dipstick when getting your oil checked - it tells me how my levels are doing Wink


TLDR Razz
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 01:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Weaaaak!
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 02:02 Reply with quote Back to top

bha, we play it becuase of the POTENTIAL outcome of a legendary dice roll that will send the usual wardancer back to Eru Illuvatar, Khaine or whatever you believe.

everything else is getting too hyped about the game.

I may be wrong tho

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 03:03 Reply with quote Back to top

worst habit?

being REALLY slow (i.e. playing max time every turn/round)

100% annoying AF.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 03:05 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
The fault of Anisdrin was being such a miserable person


tl;dr

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fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 07:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Jordan Peterson seems to have gained some weight.

Here's a similar (but "bigger") article I thought was excellent:
13 Things You Should Give Up If You Want To Be Successful
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 08:47 Reply with quote Back to top

fidius wrote:
Jordan Peterson seems to have gained some weight.

Here's a similar (but "bigger") article I thought was excellent:
13 Things You Should Give Up If You Want To Be Successful


What, no all beef diet in there?
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 10:07 Reply with quote Back to top

The worst habit? Pretty sure meth would be very close to the top of any such list. Right below that would be blaming dice. Then picking up other players miniatures without asking first.

I didn't have 10 and a half minutes to watch the video, but I did have time to reply anyway.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 10:51 Reply with quote Back to top

razmus wrote:
I've heard some of this here before... but I'm a fan of Tabletop Minions so I'll post the link here.

A valuable ten and a half minutes for anyone frustrated with their hobby:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV3F1AWGI-4


But definitely, don't waste any time on it if you are not frustrated.

I wasted 3 minutes. Wink

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Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 01, 2018 - 11:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Heh in fairness to anisdrin he stepped out of his way to give me a pretty good piece of advice that completely changed the way I approached my coaching. Smile
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