uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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Sep 03, 2020 - 18:58 |
 
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It seems like a team that will do ok at lower tv basis but will struggle to keep up with development of other teams later on. You pretty much have your full final roster immediately right? |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Sep 03, 2020 - 21:26 |
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| uzkulak wrote: | | It seems like a team that will do ok at lower tv basis but will struggle to keep up with development of other teams later on. You pretty much have your full final roster immediately right? |
You can if you take 2 rerolls. Or you can get 3 rerolls if you drop the troll slayer |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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Sep 03, 2020 - 22:45 |
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I don't field a slayer and I do fine at 1500. If anybody likes the slayer, any advice is welcome |
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Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Sep 04, 2020 - 05:00 |
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one thing I don't understand is why GW decided to nerf OWA in the 2020 rules without nerfing humans or dwarves. In terms of humans the thrower gets the 80k cost of a human thrower, but 3+ pass instead of the human team thrower's 2+ pass and the human blitzer stays at 90k, while the human team blitzers go down to 85k. And a slight change being the OWA flings being 0-2 with animosity while the human flings are 0-3 without animosity. Granted going from loner to animosity is a buff. For the OWA longbeards, they cost 75k, 5k more than a dwarf longbeard, and trade block and tackle for brawler and armbar. So 5k more for a loner 3+ with 2 strictly worse skills. |
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Muff2n
Joined: May 20, 2017
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Sep 04, 2020 - 12:03 |
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Very hard to come up with any reasons indeed. |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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Dec 07, 2020 - 15:20 |
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The 1RR roster seems to be doing fine.
It plays very much like a low-RR or no-RR renegades/norse team, and that way you can abandon some of the reservations about fielding more than 3 dorfs. I have since started rostering the runner and/or the slayer and they both have their uses.
Now, if only my skilled blockers stopped getting RIP'd apart by unskilled linos...  |
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ph0enyx13
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
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Dec 07, 2020 - 19:05 |
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Java, are you excited for the hard nerf to OWA in bb2020? |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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Dec 07, 2020 - 21:01 |
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They're definitely going to be harder to coach but the potential is still there. We'll see how it goes and if it doesn't work in any way, humans got halflings now. You can use the models you have, and if it's pixels, no harm done. |
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Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jan 12, 2021 - 18:45 |
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Does anyone think the Dwarf Blitzer is not necessarily a must have in OWA rosters? Obviously block players are really useful, but with already having a couple of loner Dwarf Blockers and the Trollslayer as well as an Ogre typically maybe it is one too many players who can't reliably use rrs (even if you only take one team reroll).
Just wondering if I will rebuy one on my next chance (lost both blitzers match 1!). Human Blitzer is definitely crucial. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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policeshades
Joined: Oct 31, 2017
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Jan 12, 2021 - 19:29 |
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| garyt1 wrote: | Does anyone think the Dwarf Blitzer is not necessarily a must have in OWA rosters? Obviously block players are really useful, but with already having a couple of loner Dwarf Blockers and the Trollslayer as well as an Ogre typically maybe it is one too many players who can't reliably use rrs (even if you only take one team reroll).
Just wondering if I will rebuy one on my next chance (lost both blitzers match 1!). Human Blitzer is definitely crucial. |
I played without the Trollslayer for the 15 match run of Blackbox Trpohy 5. Those 15 games have been my only ones playing with OWA, so take the following with that in mind:
- I definitely think value of another armour 9 block player outweighs loner because...
- The Dwarf Blitzer is not your primary blitz user, especially if you have the slayer. You use the human for range or the slayer for dauntless/surf/making room/chain pushing. Therefore if you are blocking for cas/removal and you can't afford a double skull, don't block.
- In 2020 rules I think they are relatively more valuable (block) since the Dwarf Blockers took a hard nerf.
- TL;DR - I would say a hard 'yes'. |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Jan 13, 2021 - 20:46 |
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Ah I hadn't really looked at the 2020 Dwarf blocker status. Thanks Shades. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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popekheris
Joined: Dec 12, 2020
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Jan 19, 2021 - 03:54 |
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Just played my first match with the team, decided to leave out the Dwarf Blockers to get practice closer to how I am going to field the team in BB2020. It was some of the most fun I've had in BB so far. I really enjoy getting to take a Dwarf Slayer without having to deal with the low overall speed of the Dwarf Team. Playing them gave me the vibes that I wanted to feel with the Chaos Renegades - I guess the Renegades weaker start is just too frustrating for me to overcome.
While I'm not excited about the Thrower & Blockers being bizarrely different, I am excited to get to use the Tree over the Ogre. I think I've found my second favorite team, right after Underworld! |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Apr 14, 2021 - 19:32 |
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So I have played the odd game with my OWA team and got through 11 matches. I do quite enjoy them with the mix of Dwarfs thrown in with the Humans. I still reckon I would put the Human team as better overall. Loner is such a hit to reliability (even if 3+), along with pricey team rerolls. So I went with just one team reroll. I would definitely not call these tier 1. Nor tier 2 if you are separating in to at least 5 tiers. Most teams can get away with a double skulls from a key blocker. But here you may blitz with a Dwarf and then be scuppered as can't rr.
For good points you have the key humans of Thrower, Blitzer and Catcher. Then you have some more durability with the Dwarfs. Along with the dumb Ogre. But only having 2 players above move 6 removes a key aspect of Human team flexibility.
Halfling addition doesn't do much. A cheap player to add to the bench. Perhaps who will get thrown once in a career.
I still managed to get through the 11 matches against different races with only 1 defeat. Better than I typically do, though is in ranked and over the same period I have done better with Orcs. A small sample to take too much from though, and of course against different opponents. Shockingly my only defeat was against Ogres. A team 200 tv lower which I would never have offered to, but I took the offer they gave to me. Then the Ogres didn't bonehead, they hit hard, whereas I finally had a match where having only 1 team reroll really hurt.
As often is the case with Hybrid teams it can be difficult to know what to do against bash teams with such as 4 strength 4 players or loads of guard. Especially, as I said, that OWA don't have many fast players. My team is an anomaly with a stat freak catcher. An offensive boon but does rather bloat the team value. Will be crazy expensive with the +S cost in new rules, but I will likely redraft him if I can blodge him up in the next few matches before parking the team.
I think the change of Dwarf Blocker starting skills will hurt a bit. I suppose if you have skilled Blockers then the combo of skills will be effective. Though normally you can happily give Guard as first skill improvement, maybe not anymore (block). I actually wasn't bothered about replacing the Dwarf Blitzer I lost in my first match until I found out that the Blockers skills change in next ruleset. So perhaps I am more likely to rehire a skilled Dwarf blitzer in redraft.
Although strength 6 is great and their TTM is better I don't think I would take a Treeman instead of an Ogre.
I notice on the Box stats (that Java linked) OWA have done really well from about 1100 to 1400 TV, then a quick drop off.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?op=view&showmatches=1&team_id=993848
Anyone else clarified their thoughts on OWA? Or on how they will be in the new rules? |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Apr 14, 2021 - 21:17 |
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| popekheris wrote: | | Just played my first match with the team, decided to leave out the Dwarf Blockers to get practice closer to how I am going to field the team in BB2020. .. |
I see you decided to add the blockers in the last couple of games. Just due to available treasury? |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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smeborg
Joined: Jan 04, 2019
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Apr 28, 2021 - 01:24 |
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OK, I have been running my first ever OWA team in Box for some time.
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?id=1026953
I enjoy them a lot, despite getting beaten early on. Record over 24 games is:
1st 8 games = 2/0/6 (25%)
2nd 8 games = 2/2/4 (33%)
3rd 8 games = 3/1/4 (44%)
The improvement with development (now TV193) is, I believe, not coincidental, the team feels like it gets better with age, now approaching an even record.
I know there is a school of thought that the Loners should be used passively, however, I have felt since the beginning that judicious active use of the Loners helps the team. To this end, I now have 4 RRs + Loner (on the Runner), it seems to work well, I can "blow" RRs on the Loners. I also now have 15 menz, including all positionals (which means 2 Halflings).
The team likes doubles and stat increases (Ogre and a Halfling have Block, Trollslayer is MA7, Dorf Blitzer and Runner have Dodge, a Lino just got +ST, Thrower has Strong Arm).
All of this may seem on paper like bloat, in practice, it seems to be the reverse. The team is decent value (RRs excepted).
I find OWA cannot easily hold the ball for a grind against good defense, this may be why their record (in my hands) is not good. Quite often they seem to be playing for a draw.
However, they can surprise opponents on D, and on O they can score quickly (in 2 or 3 turns). Catcher and Humie Blitzer are important players (the only ones faster than MA6). I develop the Catcher as an auxiliary Blitzer (Block, Dauntless). I find some Mighty Blow to be very helpful, sometimes win on numbers (for which a deep bench is important). I give the Linos Block (normally I am a fan of Wrestle). This is because the Linos are often the Receivers in a scramble (OWA are quite good in a scramble, their games can be very scrambled).
One-turn-TD results have been very poor (even though I often have a RR in hand), 1 such in 24 games, IIRC. Throw in a few more one-turners, and the team stats would look quite a bit better. The team has 2 options for the one-turner (toss a 'Fling or chain-push the Catcher).
Summary: not one of the strongest teams, hard work at the start, but highly entertaining, stick with them, as they get better with development. |
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