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WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 18:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Howdy. For those that remember me, the answer is obvious ( Wink ), for those who don't nice to meet you.

A little background first. From my time helping run Stunty Leeg, to bug tracking/testing for the client, to working on my own revised rule set for LRB6 for fun, to running leagues, I would say I had a very good knowledge of BB rules and the mechanics. Since returning there have obviously been some changes with BB2016, and now it looks like a BB2020 is on the way. With the BB2016 changes I think I picked most of it up quickly, but looking at BB2020, ...I am lost.

I saw random skills for lower TV and thought great, but apparently there is some weird SPP progression now? Suddenly some stats are the same and others are an n+ value (e.g. ST4 vs AG 3+). With only 5 stats you shouldn't need two formats for them. Then a pile of new skills that don't seem to do a lot, but add more complex situations to resolve (can't imagine the TT issues). And this seasons stuff and 1350 TV and redrafting... Honestly, as a now casual player my head is spinning.

Either I got a lot dumber, or, maybe just maybe, this is all too much for a 'casual' gamer. Not wanting to invest the time I would have previously digesting all the (frankly, bloat in the) new rules, I find myself losing interest fast and it isn't even here yet.

I am curious to know if I am alone. For those who just want to pop in and play some games for fun, have the rules gotten out of hand? Or am I an idiot...?

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:07 Reply with quote Back to top

How old are you WhatBall?

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:09 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
How old are you WhatBall?

??
Are you suggesting I am senile?

I've played BB since the early nineties. Does that help?

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Jim_Fear



Joined: May 02, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

From what information has been forced fed to me from the various forum threads, it looks like GW went the WH40k "Streamlined-Not Streamlined" approach with a lot of the new rules for BB2020. In time I'm sure it will make sense, but at the moment, when taken completed out of the context of an actual match, it looks like heaps of unnecessary rule additions, skills, on one off team rules.

It's nice to see you around these parts, WhatBall.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:20 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
koadah wrote:
How old are you WhatBall?

??
Are you suggesting I am senile?

I've played BB since the early nineties. Does that help?


No. I'm not suggesting anything. Mr. Green

I'm probably older than you. Wink

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/c4/6a/75c46a776a0fd9a1e73dcb66e862b2a9.jpg

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Jim_Fear wrote:
it looks like GW went the WH40k "Streamlined-Not Streamlined" approach with a lot of the new rules for BB2020.

As someone who has never played and has less than zero interest in 40K, that scare me.

Quote:
It's nice to see you around these parts, WhatBall.

Thanks.

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WhatBall



Joined: Aug 21, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:28 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
WhatBall wrote:
koadah wrote:
How old are you WhatBall?

??
Are you suggesting I am senile?

I've played BB since the early nineties. Does that help?


No. I'm not suggesting anything. Mr. Green

I'm probably older than you. Wink

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/c4/6a/75c46a776a0fd9a1e73dcb66e862b2a9.jpg

But you are suggesting something, otherwise why the post and meme? That I am being stubborn to change? Change for change's sake is dangerous, and so much of this rule set seems to be just that. Change the rules a lot to force everyone to repurchase the rules and make money. Good for the corporation, not always good for the product.

It's really no big deal though. If I don't like the new rules, I just walk away again. I am not their target market. I was interested though in those in the target market and if they think this is a positive direction or not.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 19:47 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
koadah wrote:
WhatBall wrote:
koadah wrote:
How old are you WhatBall?

??
Are you suggesting I am senile?

I've played BB since the early nineties. Does that help?


No. I'm not suggesting anything. Mr. Green

I'm probably older than you. Wink

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/c4/6a/75c46a776a0fd9a1e73dcb66e862b2a9.jpg

But you are suggesting something, otherwise why the post and meme? That I am being stubborn to change? Change for change's sake is dangerous, and so much of this rule set seems to be just that. Change the rules a lot to force everyone to repurchase the rules and make money. Good for the corporation, not always good for the product.

It's really no big deal though. If I don't like the new rules, I just walk away again. I am not their target market. I was interested though in those in the target market and if they think this is a positive direction or not.


Just a bit of fun. Wink

I don't like it either.

I've had loads of long arguments with the Cyanide guys over the years. I think that these rules are designed so that a person buying BB3, without previously having played blood bowl, would be less likely to quit.

Some of the more competitive coaches like some of the changes and I understand why.

But I know that I am not the target audience.

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[SL] Rumble - 16 team KO - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Somewhere in my late 30s I realized that if someone doesn't understand me it doesn't automatically mean I'm wrong.

In this case we are NOT the idiots, of that I can assure you. (Old, sure.)
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:36
FUMBBL Staff
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As someone who’s probably of a similar age, I’m feeling quite positive about the new rules. Over the last 25 years I’ve had to teach/explain this game to many people and I think they’ve made an effort with this new edition to simplify this. It’s a lot easier explaining to someone that they need to roll their Ag or their Pass than it is explaining the agility table and it’s inverse numbers when most action had a +1 modifier anyway. It’s a lot easier for new people to understand the concept of ‘marked’ and ‘open’ players as they’re explicit terms in the rule book.

I don’t mind the other changes to the game either, and from what I can tell the BB community generally is quite excited about it.

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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude

Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum
Grasshugger17



Joined: Jun 29, 2020

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm 45 (or I might be 46, I can't remember) and I have been playing BB since 2nd edition when I was at school, would have been around 1989, I guess.

Whether I am the target audience, I have no idea. But what I do know is that from what I have seen so far, I really like the changes. It has a feeling of rolling back the years. It harks back to the golden age of BB, when orcs hate each other and want to stamp on heads. When goblins want to stamp on heads. When renegades had tentacles and googly eyes and when the Creepers want to..............stamp on heads.

I digress.

Me thinks I am going to enjoy this new edition.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 20:42 Reply with quote Back to top

The big difference for the format on the status is: you use MV and str to determine what you can do. It's not an actual roll.

The other 3 stats are all used to determine the target number for a roll: so just it that target number in as the stat.

Whether it's needed I don't know, but the feedback I've gotten from friends who don't play much, yes it's more intuitive.

The big example in current is agi: if you had agi 3 what does that mean? Oh you dodge on a 3+. Ok, what about agi 4? That should mean dodge on a 4+ surely! No. And that's where newer players were getting lost. So they simply changed the stat to mean 'what do you need to roll?'

Spp progression? That I'm not sure of at all.

However, if it matters, for normals, it's basically what you're used to, so you could just ignore and always choose normals (now called primaries)
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 21:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I go back to one of the reasons I quit after 2nd edition - bringing in block dice and getting rid of a table based on 2D6 to determine block outcomes seemed like needless over simplification and a way for GW to sell you more stuff. In hindsight (and rereading the 2nd edition ruleset now) I was more than a little bit wrong.

If you just want to pop in and play a few games for fun, I think you're probably better off. If you want to carefully tune a team for maximum effectiveness, you're worse off in the short term, and eventually some of you will be better off, some worse off, and some about the same.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 21:57 Reply with quote Back to top

WhatBall wrote:
Then a pile of new skills that don't seem to do a lot, but add more complex situations to resolve

I think on the one hand you have skills they have "forced" to change because of the new "randomly select skill" progression rules.

For example I think they suddenly needed Break Tackle and Shadowing to be at least somewhat useful for low ST and MA players, respectively.

On the other hand you have skills like Brawler that mitigates all the st4 or st5+loner players' lack of Block, without having to give them Block. I think this could be an interesting addition.

I don't know, I'm always positive towards change, so to me this looks like a lot of fun.

Regards, one of the guys who remember you. We're still making new icons you know. Let us know if you want in on the fun again, boss.
mister__joshua



Joined: Jun 20, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2020 - 22:07
FUMBBL Staff
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Break Tackle is a change, and it’ll no longer be an auto pick for Sauruses or Centaurs (if they return) but it’s now useful for eg. Human and Orc blitzers and numerous other players. I don’t mind it. We’ll see how it goes.

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"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude

Mr. J's LRB7 / Forum
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