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sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 09:06 Reply with quote Back to top

SquirrelDude wrote:
The rule as written in the leaked images is pretty clearly broken. It's reasonable to expect this rule to be addressed early in errata.


Furthermore, there's a problem with PA 1+ players.

Page 29, in "What can possibly go wrong?" square, it's written that they fail their pass action on natural 1 but succeeded if result is 1 after modifier but, page 49, where wildly inaccurate passes are described, it is stated that a 1 after modyfing a pass roll is a wildly inaccurate pass.

I would say it could be better with wildly inaccurate passes on results under 1 after modifiers (0- in other words) for every player (PA 1+ or not).

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sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 16:23 Reply with quote Back to top

SquirrelDude wrote:


A strict interpretation of the rule as currently written would look like this.

Image



After tests and long discussions about it on french forum, I would say this strange new rule (wildly inaccurate on an exact 1 after modification) really changes our way of passing in BB but is a good find.

Fumbles now occur only 1/6 (even if long bomb and many tackle zones), wildly inaccurate only occur 1/6 too (even 0/6 in some situations) and so every pass has 4/6 to be thrown (and then, there's interference risk).

It will completely change our use of passing. Accurate passes will be rare (except for rare players with PA 2+ or 3+ and passing skills) but inaccurate passes to throw the ball on the other side of the pitch will be very less rares than in BB 2016 (and in previous LRBs).

Hard to say how it will really affect the balance between teams but I'm now more convinced by these new passing rules than I was at first reading in august. Wink


Edit : note that SquirrelDude table would be complete with only two more big columns : modifier -4 and modifiers -5 or worst (at -5, -6, -7, -8, -9, -10 and even -11, results are the same).

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CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 16:50 Reply with quote Back to top

It is also interesting that if you have a 1+ passer you never throw "Wildly Inaccurate" passes. If you also have "Safe Throw" you never Fumbles the ball either.

I think that being able to throw the ball on basically a four out of six results on the dice as either accurate or inaccurate is a good change. This will be the case even if you have a 6+ to throw the ball.

This means you can simply scoop up the ball and lob it down the pitch, even a long bomb. Even if you are 6+ to pass you are likely to get it down the pitch away from the opposing team.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 17:00 Reply with quote Back to top

gamelsetlmatch wrote:
Maybe the whole passing game was meta designed so players can more easily 'punt/long bomb' the ball just to get it away from where it (the WORSE place! lol)

Also feel like there is a lot of getting Elf Balled or n00b'd csause of passes in a game designed to eliminate players to get a score


Yes... I think that this is precisely what they aimed for. If the ball is unsecured you can throw the ball deep... perhaps you have players that next turn can secure it more easily than the opponent.

Player positioning can become way more important as you have to take this into account. With a re-roll the likelihood to succeed here will be quite big.

We also should note that it is easier to interfere with inaccurate throws so that is interesting too and can even make skills such as "On the Ball" even more useful.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 17:07 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
It is also interesting that if you have a 1+ passer you never throw "Wildly Inaccurate" passes. If you also have "Safe Throw" you never Fumbles the ball either.


On french forum, that is not our understanding of the new rules. For us, a 1 after modification is always a wildly inaccurate pass so skills like Accurate and Canonneer can avoid wildly inaccurate passes but not PA 1+.

But I have to say this is only our understanding.

Rulebook (well, leaks of rulebook for instance Very Happy ) says :

ACCURATE PASSES : if the Passing Ability test is passed, or if the roll is a natural 6, the pass is accurate (...)

WILDLY INACCURATE PASSES : if, when making the Passing Ability test, the dice roll is a 1 after modifiers have been applied, the ball will deviate from the square occupied by the player performing the Pass action before landing.

In case of a 1 after modification for a player with PA 1+, both affirmations are true.

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DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

So basically in a game where passing was hardly ever the best strategy, they have just made it even harder to make accurate passes...?! Why oh why? 'Inaccurate' punts be damned - that isn't necessary, we already had Hail Mary Pass for that play (and frankly it's a poor strategy so very sideline except for desperation defence?).

This seems very ill-considered to me. Passing was just about viable before for a few teams/good players... (e.g. elf union), why make that even worse and end up with blanket running plays? The diversity of plays is what makes (made? Sad ) Blood Bowl a good game.
Lyracian



Joined: Oct 29, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 17:17 Reply with quote Back to top

The rules do not seem to be very clear on what you do with a Wildly Inaccurate Accurate Pass! The Stat section at the start only says a natural one always fails.

My view is the intent for Wildly Inaccurate is 1/6. Even though you end up with odd dice results with 1 and 4 being bad on Long Bomb. It does mean a Halfing, Skeleton or Elven Catcher are all equal at throwing the ball 13 squares. This may open up a few more options for 2 turn scores or just stopping the opponent completely when you steal the ball.

It is a marginal increase for most players but could change Elf tactics since they will no longer be as good at accurate passing.
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 18:18 Reply with quote Back to top

sebco wrote:
CAB wrote:
It is also interesting that if you have a 1+ passer you never throw "Wildly Inaccurate" passes. If you also have "Safe Throw" you never Fumbles the ball either.


On french forum, that is not our understanding of the new rules. For us, a 1 after modification is always a wildly inaccurate pass so skills like Accurate and Canonneer can avoid wildly inaccurate passes but not PA 1+.

But I have to say this is only our understanding.

Rulebook (well, leaks of rulebook for instance Very Happy ) says :

ACCURATE PASSES : if the Passing Ability test is passed, or if the roll is a natural 6, the pass is accurate (...)

WILDLY INACCURATE PASSES : if, when making the Passing Ability test, the dice roll is a 1 after modifiers have been applied, the ball will deviate from the square occupied by the player performing the Pass action before landing.

In case of a 1 after modification for a player with PA 1+, both affirmations are true.


Which is illogical to come to that conclusion as that make 1+ pass completely useless... Wink

Until an FAQ I will play it as if 1+ pass skill actually means something.

In my opinion the rule is that accurate trump none accurate throws... a none accurate throw can then be either "Inaccurate" or "Wildly Inaccurate".

Now, you can make the interpretation that you do too which is why there need to be an FAQ to explain it... but as it is possible to get 1+ pass I see no reason to interpret it in any other way.
sebco



Joined: Feb 14, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 11, 2020 - 19:04 Reply with quote Back to top

CAB wrote:
sebco wrote:
CAB wrote:
It is also interesting that if you have a 1+ passer you never throw "Wildly Inaccurate" passes. If you also have "Safe Throw" you never Fumbles the ball either.


On french forum, that is not our understanding of the new rules. For us, a 1 after modification is always a wildly inaccurate pass so skills like Accurate and Canonneer can avoid wildly inaccurate passes but not PA 1+.

But I have to say this is only our understanding.

Rulebook (well, leaks of rulebook for instance Very Happy ) says :

ACCURATE PASSES : if the Passing Ability test is passed, or if the roll is a natural 6, the pass is accurate (...)

WILDLY INACCURATE PASSES : if, when making the Passing Ability test, the dice roll is a 1 after modifiers have been applied, the ball will deviate from the square occupied by the player performing the Pass action before landing.

In case of a 1 after modification for a player with PA 1+, both affirmations are true.


Which is illogical to come to that conclusion as that make 1+ pass completely useless... Wink

Until an FAQ I will play it as if 1+ pass skill actually means something.

In my opinion the rule is that accurate trump none accurate throws... a none accurate throw can then be either "Inaccurate" or "Wildly Inaccurate".

Now, you can make the interpretation that you do too which is why there need to be an FAQ to explain it... but as it is possible to get 1+ pass I see no reason to interpret it in any other way.


Yes, we also spoke about that (french coaches speak a lot Very Happy ).

PA 1+ possibility appears in the page 28 characteristic min & max table but no player starts with PA 1+ and even no star player has PA 1+ (speaking about BB 2016 AG5 players, Valen Swift is PA 2+ while Roxanna is AG 1+).

So, if our understanding is the good one, nobody would take PA1+ except rare coachs who want to prevent of a broken arm injury. Cool

Anyway, I understand your reading and only hope there will be a FAQ to clarify that point cause, according to me, two interpretations are possible there (well, not too important as, in my opinion, PA 1+ players will be rare with the new rules, even if your interpretation is the good one).

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Last edited by sebco on Nov 12, 2020 - 15:47; edited 1 time in total
bram



Joined: Jan 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 14:28 Reply with quote Back to top

DrDeath wrote:
So basically in a game where passing was hardly ever the best strategy, they have just made it even harder to make accurate passes...?! Why oh why? 'Inaccurate' punts be damned - that isn't necessary, we already had Hail Mary Pass for that play (and frankly it's a poor strategy so very sideline except for desperation defence?).

This seems very ill-considered to me. Passing was just about viable before for a few teams/good players... (e.g. elf union), why make that even worse and end up with blanket running plays? The diversity of plays is what makes (made? Sad ) Blood Bowl a good game.


+1 Crying or Very sad
deyempe



Joined: Aug 14, 2013

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 15:38 Reply with quote Back to top

why they are butchering our beloved game Sad what these new skills and teams and it is all changing too much too fast :'(((
Muff2n



Joined: May 20, 2017

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 16:03 Reply with quote Back to top

I wonder if you can choose to apply the +1 on accurate. If so, I can avoid rolling a 1 after modifications by choosing not to use it. This will make the pass inaccurate and not wildly inaccurate!?
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Muff2n wrote:
I wonder if you can choose to apply the +1 on accurate. If so, I can avoid rolling a 1 after modifications by choosing not to use it. This will make the pass inaccurate and not wildly inaccurate!?


Yes... Accurate will make "Wildly Inaccurate" passes impossible with Quick and Short passes while Cannoneer will make Long and Long Bomb passes avoid them.

The rule clearly state you "may" add a +1 to the roll. All skills always are optional to use unless the rules say otherwise.

You probably want either of these skills on your thrower in order to avoid those Wildly Inaccurate passes.

Runners with a decent passing ability also can benefit from at least the Accurate skill for the same reason.


Last edited by CAB on Nov 12, 2020 - 17:21; edited 1 time in total
steinerp



Joined: Sep 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 17:21 Reply with quote Back to top

DrDeath wrote:
So basically in a game where passing was hardly ever the best strategy, they have just made it even harder to make accurate passes...?! Why oh why?


Because as they said, they wanted to make passing a bigger part of the game obviously. Smile
CAB



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 12, 2020 - 17:25 Reply with quote Back to top

They have made it way easier to actual get the ball away from the player now... so you are likely to see more attempt at passing as a result when a player are either pressured or stealing the ball.

Getting the ball into a safer spot will be easier, especially against slow teams.

Being able to practically lob the ball 13 squares with a 2/3 chance are pretty good and an interesting change. It probably might do allot more for the game than one might originally think.
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