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Poll
Will bb2020 changes make you retire from fumbbl?
Never, fumbbl 4eva!
75%
 75%  [ 173 ]
Completely retire
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
Retire except still do league
7%
 7%  [ 18 ]
Retire except still do some tournaments
0%
 0%  [ 2 ]
Undecided
14%
 14%  [ 32 ]
Total Votes : 228


ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 06:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I have seen these same angst ridden "sky is falling" each time the rules changed... LRB4 to CRP to BB2016 and now to BB2020... each time its "I'm done, I'm leaving, screw GW" and each time the game rolls on and continues.

Fumbbl will go on until Christer pulls the plug. At all times there will be players. If you're not playing, to be honest you will not be missed. I am not being nasty, its just that if you decide not to play anymore thats fine and I won't notice and nor will 99.9% of people.

I welcome all the new players that are brought in by the new edition and I welcome the change in meta/playstyles.
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 07:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Wozzaa wrote:
That would be fun. Really build a team with history.
But at the expense of any players with history.

ClayInfinity wrote:
I have seen these same angst ridden "sky is falling" each time the rules changed... LRB4 to CRP to BB2016 and now to BB2020... each time its "I'm done, I'm leaving, screw GW" and each time the game rolls on and continues.
I've been playing since 2nd edition (30+ yrs and on Fumbbl for 15+). I've been through all the editions but this will be the first one where I've felt I couldn't play the game the way I enjoy playing it. That's just sad.

ClayInfinity wrote:
If you're not playing, to be honest you will not be missed. I am not being nasty, its just that if you decide not to play anymore thats fine and I won't notice and nor will 99.9% of people.
A foolishly cavalier attitude. And yes you do sound like a dick for saying it, even if it's true. Razz
Happy_Amateur



Joined: Jan 14, 2019

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 07:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Salty.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 09:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
I've been through all the editions but this will be the first one where I've felt I couldn't play the game the way I enjoy playing it. That's just sad.


How do you enjoy playing blood bowl, and what are the changes that prevent you from playing it that way?

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ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 09:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
Wozzaa wrote:
That would be fun. Really build a team with history.
But at the expense of any players with history.

ClayInfinity wrote:
I have seen these same angst ridden "sky is falling" each time the rules changed... LRB4 to CRP to BB2016 and now to BB2020... each time its "I'm done, I'm leaving, screw GW" and each time the game rolls on and continues.
I've been playing since 2nd edition (30+ yrs and on Fumbbl for 15+). I've been through all the editions but this will be the first one where I've felt I couldn't play the game the way I enjoy playing it. That's just sad.

ClayInfinity wrote:
If you're not playing, to be honest you will not be missed. I am not being nasty, its just that if you decide not to play anymore thats fine and I won't notice and nor will 99.9% of people.
A foolishly cavalier attitude. And yes you do sound like a dick for saying it, even if it's true. Razz


So you're like me. I looked at your profile. I have been here a bit longer than you, but you've been here since 2005. We have never played against each other (timezones I would suggest why) but you and I have a similar middle of the road win record (low 50% range).

You're not uber skilled, nor am I.

But due to your longevity, you would know the history of this site and similar gnashing of teeth by those against change (many of whom I am sure are still here).

But why now? Why give up 16yrs of enjoyment over a rules change? The passing side has been nerfed... it is a shit rule but on the flipside, passing is such a small element of the game if you play tactically well you dont need to pass mostly. (As an aside, we both average under 3yds per match passing a game, and remember a forward motion handoff counts as 1yd)

So like Wozzaa says, why now?

And re the comment about leaving... do you remember many years ago when people made forum threads about their leaving and 99% of responses were "yeah, see ya, dont let the door hit you on the way out"

Nothing re you personally, but threats to leave are all a bit meh. I would rather talk about the WHY.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 10:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't get it.
I am here to play a board game online because I would not have the chance to do so locally. And stay because of the community. It's up to coaches to create environments in which they enjoy to play.
Some only play in leagues, some only in box or ranked, some play resurrection tournaments based on NAF rules, some play in customised environments.

Unless the BB3 computer game offers what fumbbl offers I see no reason to leave.
The inclusion of BB2020 will probably be optional, meaning if you plan to play old rule sets it will be possible here.
If the majority enjoys the new rule set it will be played by most. If not, there will be enough demand to keep an old school BB enviornment.
Right now, no one here played a single online season based on BB2020 rules. So it's kinda threating tea leaves.

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mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 10:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Malmir wrote:
I voted undecided. I am going to see if I still enjoy playing it. No matter how it turns out, and I hope to be singing its praises in year's time, the vote so far is hardly a ringing endorsement of how the new rules are perceived, with almost half so far (12/25) either undecided or considering some form of retirement.


Is now over 70% majority for fumbbl4eva. Don't stop counting votes too soon Wink

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 12:35 Reply with quote Back to top

mekutata wrote:
Malmir wrote:
I voted undecided. I am going to see if I still enjoy playing it. No matter how it turns out, and I hope to be singing its praises in year's time, the vote so far is hardly a ringing endorsement of how the new rules are perceived, with almost half so far (12/25) either undecided or considering some form of retirement.


Is now over 70% majority for fumbbl4eva. Don't stop counting votes too soon Wink


Great news and glad to hear it.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 13:09 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
I have seen these same angst ridden "sky is falling" each time the rules changed... LRB4 to CRP to BB2016 and now to BB2020... each time its "I'm done, I'm leaving, screw GW" and each time the game rolls on and continues.

Fumbbl will go on until Christer pulls the plug. At all times there will be players. If you're not playing, to be honest you will not be missed. I am not being nasty, its just that if you decide not to play anymore thats fine and I won't notice and nor will 99.9% of people.

I welcome all the new players that are brought in by the new edition and I welcome the change in meta/playstyles.


Sure, sure.

When the rules change, people come and people go.

For some people, Fumbbl has been their favourite pass time (or at least one of them) for 5, 10, 15+ years.
So yes, some people are going to be pretty sad that it could be all over.

My last three attempts to get an open game in the [L]eague division have all failed. If I could have waited longer I might have got one. But there are only so many hours in a day and a Fumbbl game can be an hour+.

Arranging scheduled matches can be difficult.

I had assumed that I would be Fumbbl4Ever forever. But I wasn't expecting a ruleset that (for me) could be this bad.

I understand that Fumbbl needs the new rules. I stopped playing and went to Cyanide & Stunty Leeg when Fumbbl couldnn't go to LRB5.

I don't play many games anyway. I remember my uni freshers fair. Society recruiters would say "if you don't want play, be a social member".
Well, I've done that. I've run literally hundreds of tournaments. I don't usually play in them. When I do I'm often one & done. Wink
But, it is a lot easier to run a tournament that I would want to play in if I had the time.

I haven't quit. I voted "undecided". I'll probably give it one more try.

If it doesn't work, there'll be no appeal apart perhaps for the sparkling repartee.

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[SL] Old World Rumbble - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 13:17 Reply with quote Back to top

ClayInfinity wrote:
{stuff too long to quote} Wink

(First I don't know that I'd put too much stock in my overall passing #s since I played a metric crap-ton of 1v1 games! Smile )

But if you take a look at my longest played team, they are a (L) HE team that extensively makes use of passing, both on Offense, but more importantly on Defense (I play Sack, Scoop, and Score high pressure defense). I've intentionally avoided playing other HE teams on Fumbbl because I have my League team (I play EU in Tournaments where I've also been successful with a similar playstyle), otherwise my win % might be higher.

Although some would no doubt say that the other coaches in my league may be even less 'uber skilled' than I am, it's a tactic, and more importantly, a playstyle that I enjoy. I cannot conceive of playing that same style using the new absurd passing rules (My HE Catchers now pass as well as Dwarf Lineman!?!), and the thought of being forced to play 'rolling stall' defense is only slightly less painful a thought than stepping on my own penis! (or playing Dwarves...same thing) Laughing

As to your question of "Why give up 16yrs of enjoyment over a rules change?": The virtual elimination of passing has made it a completely different game...and a game that I, very likely, won't really enjoy (look at how often I play many of the 'non-passing' races).

And re your comment "threats to leave are all a bit meh", I agree.. I'm not 'threatening', I'm lamenting. I have no expectation that Christer will do anything other than what he will do...adapt to the rules as published and move forward. I'm simply stating that due to the change in rules, BB is likely to be a game I no longer enjoy to play for the foreseeable future. I'm not throwing a tantrum over the rule change, rather I'm expressing (immense) sorrow that a game that I've played for over 30 years, and a league that I've been a part of for over 15 (and have convinced both my Wife and 2 sons to join!) is no longer going to be something I'm willing to do.

It's not rancor or entitlement that I'm trying to express, it is (quite honestly) grief. Sad


Last edited by Craftnburn on Jan 13, 2021 - 13:52; edited 1 time in total
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 13:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I'll definately stay around, but possibly only for leagues that use something closer to the current ruleset. I'm looking forward to testing the new rules, some roster changes seem interesting for example, but I foresee tiring of the novelty quickly. Or maybe I'm wrong and it'll be great, stranger things have happened.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:

It's not rancor or entitlement that I'm trying to express, it is (quite honestly) grief. Sad


+1

Well, maybe a bit of rancor Twisted Evil

Alas, 15 years is far too short a time to spend among such excellent and admirable coaches... Mr. Green

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[SL] Old World Rumbble - Brand new teams only - ALWAYS recruiting
Verminardo



Joined: Sep 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 14:54 Reply with quote Back to top

I am among those massively put off by the new rules, but I probably invested too much into becoming a half-decent Blood Bowl player to now quit. The question is can I somehow find a more positive attitude to the new rules because currently I'm just really not feeling it. On the other hand I recently bought 3 new teams (not from GW, never from them!) and am almost done painting the second one so would be a shame to never give them a go. That's supposing that RL tournaments will ever come back. Razz

Voted undecided but really it's "I'm already half-way gone but will probably come back for NAF Online and Box Trophy at some point".
ClayInfinity



Joined: Aug 15, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 16:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
ClayInfinity wrote:
{stuff too long to quote} Wink

(First I don't know that I'd put too much stock in my overall passing #s since I played a metric crap-ton of 1v1 games! Smile )

But if you take a look at my longest played team, they are a (L) HE team that extensively makes use of passing, both on Offense, but more importantly on Defense (I play Sack, Scoop, and Score high pressure defense). I've intentionally avoided playing other HE teams on Fumbbl because I have my League team (I play EU in Tournaments where I've also been successful with a similar playstyle), otherwise my win % might be higher.

Although some would no doubt say that the other coaches in my league may be even less 'uber skilled' than I am, it's a tactic, and more importantly, a playstyle that I enjoy. I cannot conceive of playing that same style using the new absurd passing rules (My HE Catchers now pass as well as Dwarf Lineman!?!), and the thought of being forced to play 'rolling stall' defense is only slightly less painful a thought than stepping on my own penis! (or playing Dwarves...same thing) Laughing

As to your question of "Why give up 16yrs of enjoyment over a rules change?": The virtual elimination of passing has made it a completely different game...and a game that I, very likely, won't really enjoy (look at how often I play many of the 'non-passing' races).

And re your comment "threats to leave are all a bit meh", I agree.. I'm not 'threatening', I'm lamenting. I have no expectation that Christer will do anything other than what he will do...adapt to the rules as published and move forward. I'm simply stating that due to the change in rules, BB is likely to be a game I no longer enjoy to play for the foreseeable future. I'm not throwing a tantrum over the rule change, rather I'm expressing (immense) sorrow that a game that I've played for over 30 years, and a league that I've been a part of for over 15 (and have convinced both my Wife and 2 sons to join!) is no longer going to be something I'm willing to do.

It's not rancor or entitlement that I'm trying to express, it is (quite honestly) grief. Sad


OK, I get the comment re grief... i too enjoy playing long passing with my Pro Elf teams because of the NOS etc.

All I can say, and i do hope its true, that the upcoming Spikes give High Elves a re-do and that they are installed as the best passing team in BB. I get the notion of throwing vs catching as a seperate stat and to elevate the Thrower in the meta, but yeah, passing with the WIP rule does add alot of bad risk.

But when looking at the rules, I wouldn't put too much credence into what a Dwarf Longbeard throws at in comparsion to a HE Catcher. Some positions will have a PA stat, but tactically they should never be throwing and if you ever force an opposing long beard to throw the ball, I would say you're doing well.

But back onto your grief... grief passes, changes happen, but I think its a bit too early to be saying "I'm done" Smile
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2021 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Only option that would represent me would be play less ranked/blackbox. Doubt I'll retire all together from any. The bigger risk would be bb3 video game, not the changes on fumbbl.
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