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Poll
Should Agent Fees be enabled in redraft on FUMMBL for C Div?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 28 ]
No
32%
 32%  [ 18 ]
Pie
16%
 16%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 55


PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 00:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Here we go guys my last ditch effort to stop agent fees from getting implemented into the redraft for C div.

**Iam not against redraft. << that is a period, for clarification.

Iam against agent fees on the redraft budget for FUMBBL C div.

Now instead of drawing this out into a very long winded multi paragraph post I will use the the bullet point presentation. Anybody who works in HR or worker complaints situations would agree bullet point format is the preferred method.

Wink


1: History of FUMBBL. The one thing FUMBBL R/B had going for it was histroy. Team history but to the point, player history. You could make legend players that in some cases could be equal or better than the stock star players.

That is gone now with agent fees. Aint going to ever happen again.

2: With the introduction of the new rule set in C the game has now been turned into a table top experience. Who can make the best team in a 15 game sprint. Rinse, repeat and off we go. The issue I have is that in the rinse, repeat cycle you get rid of all your veteran players who could one day, maybe reach legend and play 400+ games, that is a true legend player on FUMMBL....gone...aint going to ever happen again. Loved you Krikack and Debog and ........... to many to list here.

3: We just had our first major tournament with the new rule set. It was a great tournament and accomplished its main goal. Every coach on FUMMBL can now field a team and not feel they are behind the 8 ball of legacy teams that dominated the old rule set.

BUT

Because the rule set is now set up for table top gaming with the 15 game redraft. It is now a game of who can make the best roster inside that 15 games and hire star players to take them over the top. That is not the FUMBBL C div legacy is it? The true death of the old R/B? If it is, then IMO that is nihilism.

"we" have thrown overboard over a decade of history, legacy and fun on FUMBBL, of making legendary players that rival the Star Player list.

4: The C div is home to open play tournament action. So, why cant teams make their own home grown legend or two on their roster? Agent fees. Thus if teams cant make legend players to anchor their team because of agent fees, well, then, I quess i should make a new team before every major, play 10 games, horde gold and make a team with some skills and enough gold to hire star players for my epic run to tournament glory, table top style.

Agent fees are the main issue with redraft. It totally destroys FUMMBL's legacy of teams with legend players and history.

Lets leave at least one last legacy that FUMBBL has given the Blood Bowl community and this great game. Let coaches decide if they want legend players to be a apart of their team. Because the new rule set has laid scorched earth on the rest of FUMMBL when it comes to history of teams on FUMBBL.

DO NOT ENABLE AGENT FEES ON REDRAFT.

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Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

It's sad to think all those grandfathered Norse and Zons may escape a honourable death and just be simply drafted out.

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amazingprizzini



Joined: Dec 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 00:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I think this is a great idea.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 00:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I mean, Shindahl, if he doesn't die on the pitch, is going to more than quadruple his number of games before being retired.

I don't particularly think legends are gone. My orc team will aim to have a legend on its roster every season.

Having THREE legends on a team? yeah, that will be gone.
JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 01:17 Reply with quote Back to top

PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the latter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.

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Last edited by JanMattys on Sep 30, 2022 - 09:56; edited 1 time in total
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 01:34 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the letter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.

History-wise I think you are right. Although I think I enjoy watching/playing games with distinguished players more than teams with distinguished histories.

I gotta say though, All the MA 8 AG 4 Dorf runners that will be running around will make distinguished players fell less distinguished.

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 09:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Kinks wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the letter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.

History-wise I think you are right. Although I think I enjoy watching/playing games with distinguished players more than teams with distinguished histories.

I gotta say though, All the MA 8 AG 4 Dorf runners that will be running around will make distinguished players fell less distinguished.


That's another problem, yes. In the old rules a +stats +doubles player was something rare, unexpected and really peculiar. Now, if one really wants a stat freak he's basically guaranteed to be able to build one.
Agent Fees are what keeps this in check. You can build a superfreak, but you will only enjoy the end product for a season / a season and a half before his retirement.
Without agent fees... once the freak gets to legend his value never raises again.

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MerryZ



Joined: Nov 28, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 09:30 Reply with quote Back to top

You can still do your big legendary players in leagues, where they can play against eachother.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 09:54 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the letter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.


Krikack is not even one player, its a long series of players carrying the same name... which is still totally possible with redraft fees
Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Agent fees should scale with the level of the player. As in real life sports... agents of hot shots earn lots of money, whereas agents of rookies can barely make a living. So rookie agent fee = 0, experienced agent fee = 5, emerging star agent fee = 10, star agent fee = 15, super star agent fee =20, legend agent fee = 25. With this you might get the chance to build your legend a bit easier, although once you have him he will be difficult to keep (as it is in real life sports)
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 22:03 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
Kinks wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the letter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.

History-wise I think you are right. Although I think I enjoy watching/playing games with distinguished players more than teams with distinguished histories.

I gotta say though, All the MA 8 AG 4 Dorf runners that will be running around will make distinguished players fell less distinguished.


That's another problem, yes. In the old rules a +stats +doubles player was something rare, unexpected and really peculiar. Now, if one really wants a stat freak he's basically guaranteed to be able to build one.
Agent Fees are what keeps this in check. You can build a superfreak, but you will only enjoy the end product for a season / a season and a half before his retirement.
Without agent fees... once the freak gets to legend his value never raises again.


I disagree. I'll be keeping legends for at least 2 seasons, if not more. Its worthwhile to keep that legend even if you can't redraft all your positionals - you make so much money, you'll hire them quickly anyway, and by losing them, your tv goes down, so you fight lower tv teams anyway.. which your legend then can do better against.
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Here is how I look at it and some reasoning behind my stance on agent fees.

**the assumption is that at redraft you have a budget of 1350GC OR TV, how ever you like to look at it**

So at redraft you start your team at its baseline of 1 mil gold. How ever that shakes out.

Now you have some choices on what to do with the remaining 350K. The key factor here is how much of that 350 do you want to keep in skills. The agent fees drive up the cost of keeping players with skills.

Thus a legend player going on his 5 season would cost 80K for agent (4 seasons) + his player TV. So a 6 skill picked primary player would cost: 80K (agent) +120 (skills) + Base cost. So if it is a 80K base player your legend now costs 280K of your 350K redraft budget.

SO..this is very simple in my mind, there are only 2 options.

option 1: No agent fees means you can keep more skills across the board of your roster. You can use your full 350K redraft budget to spend on skills all across the team. if/when you get your legend, then yes his total cost will no longer increase but that legend will eat into your 350K big time. Thus reducing the rest of the roster when it comes to skills across the board.

thus, every redraft you always get to re-tool the roster with 350K of skill on your 11 men you re-hired.

Option 2: Keep agent fees and thus the only players who will reach legend and stay on a team for any length of seasons are the fast SPP earners on the roster. All the other position players who take 3-5 seasons to make legend will have been trimmed at the redraft due to agent fees.

Thus the only legends on FUMBBL will be the fast earning SPP players.

Quote:
I gotta say though, All the MA 8 AG 4 Dorf runners that will be running around will make distinguished players fell less distinguished.


As Kinks points out, in that quote, with out agent fees this scenario could happen.

the flip side is with agent fees distinguished players will most likely never emerge and if/when they do, their shelf life is 30-45 games as legend and they fade away into dust. Thus never being distinguished because no one ever actually saw that player play.

Also for tournament players agent fees pushes you to stream line rosters with Star Players + Gold reserve in mind for the tournament. If you love NAF table top action, then, well, I quess you love option #2.

****

I dont like NAF style table top blood bowl. I like making my own out standing players and almost never induce star players.

As you can see the choice is very clear.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 23:02 Reply with quote Back to top

JanMattys wrote:
PainState wrote:

Team history but to the point, player history.


This is where you lost me. I disagree. The former is more important than the latter. The Buccaneers legacy is worth so much more than the legend of Krikack Bonetooth.


Well, is the old chicken and egg with the Buccaneers.

Are they famous because?
1: total games played
2: the 14 legendary players they had, which a lot of coaches remember their names.
3: Combo of both
4: My self promotion of the team, because I love fluff and fluff is very easy with the Buccaneers
5: Iam just a very popular coach with the "people"

IMO the Buccaneers legacy on FUMBBL is 98% rooted in its epic stable of Legendary players. That was what the fans showed up to watch.

1% oh its the Buccaneers playing. ^ above was why people would spec the Buc matches.

1% of it is coaches who wanted to watch PainState go down in epic flames and hope to see one his precious legends die a miserable death. Bucs are one of the biggest love/hate teams around.

BTW: There are some coaches right now on full TILT because the Buccaneers where even mentioned in this discussion. Dont blame me....I did not invoke their name. :}

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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 30, 2022 - 23:33 Reply with quote Back to top

for me, it was always number 1 and 4
Kinks



Joined: Feb 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 01, 2022 - 01:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm surprised the poll is so close. I was under the impression the overwhelming (largely silent) majority wanted them implemented.

Sadly, I agree with PainState's analysis of there being 2 options, each flawed in it's own way. I'd personally rather see agency fees based on a players experience/skills/SPPs. I think that would:

- Stop teams bloating.
- Enable teams to keep some players indefinitely, but not with compromise for the rest of the team.
- It wouldn't force you to sack rookies just because it was end of season.
- Would make it worth while purchasing player toward the end of season (rather than blow it all on inducements).

So, for example, this guy:
Image
465k If it was 20k per rank. 345k+(20k*6)
605k If it was + advancement costs. 345k+260k
588k If it was 1k per SPP. 345k+238k

Clearly he's an extreme. But I think any of those methods would make such a player both achievable and special, which I don't think is the case with or without standard agency fees.

Although, I understand [R], [C] & [B] have always focused on being as RAW as possible.

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