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Poll
Cusimano the Gentle Giant used to be a Fan Favourite, a skill no longer part of the rules. What should it be replaced with?
Pick-me-up
36%
 36%  [ 4 ]
Pump up the Crowd
45%
 45%  [ 5 ]
Raiding Party
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Wisdom of the White Dwarf
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Other, pie, halibut, etc. (leave a comment!)
9%
 9%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 11


Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 19:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Image
Thank you, The_Squigadier!

All Teams, Stars, Icons and Portraits complete.

-- You can create a team and start play(test)ing --

So as per the other thread - I'll work myself through the old Stunty Leeg Rosters and re-create them as they were - with as few changes as possible.

I do NOT want to run a league though - so if somebody else wants to set one up as I go through these, please do go ahead.

For reference the lovely Stunty League Handbook (pdf).

--- Ruleset ---

Happy with feedback if and how that should be adapted - at the moment no seasons / redrafts and you get to nominate three players for the MvP.

Hitting an opposing player via TTM does not cause a turnover.

Koadah, Razmus and myself have admin access - if you want to be the Stunty League Champion and make all this bloom, talk to one of us. Or all.

--- Rosters ---

I'll add passing - Big guys 5+ (if Ag2) and 6+ (if Ag1). As anything could at least try to pass in the old rules I'd like to keep it like this. Went with 3+ (for Ag2 stunties) and 4+ (for Ag3 ones) - as the base line PA for official AG 3 Goblins / Halflings is 4+.

    Albion Fae --- (no changes, just passing added).

    Chaos Hafling --- Chaos Spawn has Unchanneled Fury instead of Wild Animal. Same Change to all other Wild Animal players. Set Loner to 4+ as standard minos elsewhere.

    Eshin Adepts --- Assassin has passing 3+ as AG is 2+

    Forest Goblins --- Shaman has both Disturbing Presence and Foul Appearance as per the old Foul Appearance skill. Will do same with any other FA player.

    Gnoblar --- (nothing major needed changing)

    Gnome --- Biggest changes so far (*explanation below)

    Goblin Cheaters --- now up to 16 not just 12 goblins, as I don't know why not. Pogoer actually gets a Pogo stick, but still not stunty - so you do need to leap over, not dodge through. Keeps Very Long legs which helps with that. Bomber gains right stuff - as I don't know why they hadn't that (you can get stars with throw team mate for these). Kicker is dp +1 as they are probably strong enough once they get sneaky git.

    Horrors of Tzeentch --- kick team mate instead of throw team mate (ttm requires st5 minimum now, so needed the switch) on horrors and greater horrors, safe throw replaced with cloudburster on flamers and fyrewyrm (it's fire, you can't intercept it that easily); I am not sure the client gets that interaction between bombs and cloudburster right. Might re-add safe throw later. Can make argument for either. Fyrewyrms have PA4+ even though they are a big guy. That way bombardier is even possible - as they have no hands it`s not a big deal. Might lower it further.

    Nurglings --- plague ridden replaces Nurgle`s rot - they are old school so all of them keep it; nurglings and putrifier gain right stuff - as, as with cheaters, they do have access to stars with TTM. It'll likely result in a crash, but hey - you can try! Note that Nurgle's rot in the rules does NOT work on stunties or players with strength above four. There was custom code for the old stunty league - but this won't work now. There aren't that many non-stunty and below st5 players; so getting a nurgling is a challenge.

    Pro Halflings --- no changes except treeman gained timmm-ber. (Had Passing on normal rolls to get better at ttm, I guess - which doesn't make much of a difference now. I left it at P so you can select Leader ... or well if you want to try pass the ball "better" you can do so. If it ever catches it.) They don't have a nice intro text, as the others, so if anyone wants to write one, do share.

    Pygmy --- Pygmy's weren't really a team many used in stunty, so I have no idea what they feel like, and I think they need some boosts; but they need to work with what each "animal" is like. Added Pogo Stick and Very Long Legs to the Eagle Warrior. It already had leap and stunty - and I'd just dodge through instead of leap. This way there's a +1 on the leap - and it can continue to dodge after. Both Aligator Warrior and Jaguar Warrior do not have dodge, and I feel they are too fragile. I'd like to give them something extra. One of the two will probably be the only stunty league player to start with wrestle - and I might add dodge OR tackle to the other. Needs playtesting. I probably want to go wrestle on the Aligator, given that it does have ag2 - dodge might make it too powerful right away. Added right stuff for the ttm star.

    Skink --- no changes other than adding right stuff to all of them, in line with the others that can get a star with ttm.

    Skyre Slaves --- no change, just added right stuff to stunty players for their TTM star. Would consider giving Mechavermin Bonehead to tone them down just slightly.

    Snotlings --- Snotlings lose two heads, get titchy instead; does the same. I stick with the stunty league implementation of thick/skull regeneration rather than swarming to show there's loads of em. Trolls are as they were - that is without projectile vomit - up for debate if they should get it. No changes otherwise.

    Squig Herders --- Bloodlust replaced with Animal Savagery. No other changes.

    Strigoyan --- Thralls upped from a maximum of 12 to 16 in line with other teams. Bloodlust replaced with Animal Savagery. Thralls are no longer marked as thralls on the roster (yes, I know) as there's no function / need for that.


[Please protest if any of the few interpretations I need to do aren't to your taste Smile]

--- Bigger changes ---

Gnome: Cannon gains ST5, up from ST3. As the new rules require st5 minimum for Throw Team Mate to work, which is the cannon's purpose, that's the only option. It loses any and all access to general skills AND agility skills, however. Will never, ever have block, tackle, side step, dodge etc, even on doubles. They might get guard and mightyblow on doubles (it's a cannon, it does hurt, but it's not reliable or accurate).

AG is 4+ instead of 3+, to nerv that strength increase, but they still pass on a 3+ - just don't dodge as well. Gained extra arms, so that ball handling is as if they were ag3. (does have access to break tackle on doubles).

They also gain Kick team mate, so now the two cannons can work together. Picture it as the one shooting a gnome into the other, and then that one firing it on. It's very unlikely to work without the gnome getting injured. If it's two different gnomes the (kick team mate) second one is launched without much preparation.

As TTM passes now get SPP these will skill up faster (including the odd both down / pow injury on blocks) - but they have a limited amount of skills to choose from, so you might be able to buy them some stat upgrades eventually. They are still secret weapons which is the most likely thing to take them off the pitch - or knock them over, and they are unlikely to get up again (no dodge, remember).Am considering to even reduce them to MA1 but give them sure feet (which they can't get as a skill otherwise). That way the max MA they can have is MA3 with two upgrades, which mainly helps with standing up again.

You can increase their strength to something mad, but it'll bloat your TV, and it's a random chance. You might increase their passing to 1+, but gnomes are slow, so getting one near the end zone is hard as is. The PA upgrade, too, is a random roll.

Update: Added a second cannon prototype that is closer to the old / traditional one, just with throw team mate replaced with kick team mate - but it gets all skill access on double as it used to.

I also nerved my reworking as much as possible - so MA1 and sure feet it is.

You can get one of each to try them out.

--- Star Players ---

This is where the interpretation gets more difficult and opinions really are welcome.

    1. Doom Diver Catapult --- At the moment I have given the catapult passing 3+. It's better than most normal stunty players and it'd have passed on a 3+ in the old rules. Loner is set to 3+. It ought to be useable, but not all reliable. Kick team mate instead of throw team mate due to strength limit in new rules.
    *** Plays for: Gnoblar, Gnomes, Snotling

    2. Leeloo Lion Tamer --- added decay, as, as mentioned in the Stunty Handbook, was meant to come with a niggle; added sneaky git, as he's meant to be rather aggressive and using "underhanded" tactics by the background. So if you hire Leeloo you get a star with a bit staying power if you foul - but, due to decay, the opponent might get an a bit easier removal, too. Loner set to 4+.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Forest Goblins, Pro Halflings, Pygmy

    3. Odster Evil One --- nothing sneaky about this one, by the background, so just regular dirty player +1, but with a chainsaw. So - basically, unchanged. Loner 4+. Old Pro would fit his background, but I haven't added that skill. Handbook has him as secret weapon +6, FUMBBL setting was +7 and I stayed with +7. Was a balance update?
    *** Plays for: Goblin Cheaters, Squig Herders

    4. Squeakshot Plaguewind --- only change is not really a change in that he gains disturbing presence alongside foul appearance - though, by the background, how disturbing or foul he looks like is debatable. The one or the other could go. Loner 4+.
    *** Plays for: Eshin Adepts, Skyre Slaves

    5. Blarney Bill Bastidge --- I left him at Loner 4+, even though his background feels like it should be higher - the bit just about how hard he is to coach is highlighted so much; but it might be too much of a nerv. I also think sneaky git, but not dirty player, would fit - but again didn't change anything.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Gnome

    6. Mincemeat the Mad Butcher --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Chaos Halflings

    7. Windwalker --- Loner 4+, no changes. Think he needs some play testing - is ag3+ good enough with Hypnotic Gaze to make it worth hiring him?
    *** Plays for: Pygmy

    8. Tasty Tom --- Loner 4+, by the background I think he also ought to fit to Squig Herders - but left everything as is.
    *** Plays for: Chaos Halflings, Strigoyan

    9. Nezogt the Mutated --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Eshin Adepts, Gnoblar, Goblin Cheaters, Horrors of Tzeentch, Nurglings, Skyre Slaves, Snotlings

    10. Fumlig da Venomouz Spida --- Fumlig had a bit of a re-working. Added Disturbing Presence as with all Foul Appearance players. Replaced Piling On with Pile Driver. Because that is much weaker in the current rules the Spida also gained Sneaky Git and Dirty Player. Piling on didn't send you off in the past, so Sneaky Git a least protects some from the ref, if you use Pile Driver, and dirty player helps some with damage on a foul. Could be reworked with some of the other skills below, like Crushing Blow, etc, but that's tinkering when and if needed. Loner is set to 4+. Needs playtesting if the price is still ok --> too high, too low, just right?
    *** Plays for: Forest Goblin, Gnoblar, Skink, Squig Herders

    11. Igor --- Igor used to be a Thrall for the Strigoyan team; but doesn't need to be that anymore. Set to Dirty Player +2 - but not sneaky git, as it doesn't fit him. So - a bit of a tactical removal fouler. Likely to get something off the pitch, but also more likely to be sent off - and given his cost you better make it count. Loner 4+.
    *** Plays for: Horrors of Tzeentch, Nurgling, Strigoyan

    12. Mad Gark the Tamer --- No changes, Loner 4+.
    *** Plays for: Goblin Cheaters, Squig Herders

    13. Bonegnawer --- Unchannelled Fury instead of Wild Animal, Loner 4+. Wonder if this one is overpriced?
    *** Plays for: Eshin Adepts, Skyre Slaves

    14. Screamer of Tzeentch --- Unchannelled Fury instead of Wild Animal. Loner 4+. Claws and Mighty Blow (but not block) would fit the background. Left as is, for now.
    *** Plays for: Horrors of Tzeentch

    15. Logan --- Unchannelled Fury instead of Wild Animal. Loner 4+, though by his background I'd be able to argue for Loner 5+.
    *** Plays for: Chaos Hafling, Pygmy, Horrors of Tzeentch

    16. Will-O the Wisp --- Loner (4+). She has gotten way, way more powerfull with ag 1+ and the new Hypnotic Gaze. Might need a price adjustment.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Pro Halflings

    17. Smallpox the Flatulent --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Nurglings

    18. King Tot --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Chaos Halflings, Strigoyan

    19. Zend Sickstench --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Nurglings, Snotlings

    20. Quoloth the Fierce --- Quoloth used to have stakes - a skill no longer in the 2020 rules. As it was such a situational +1 on armor rolls against undead (not many in stunty league) I replaced it with Crushing Blow --> a situational +1 to a single armor roll against anyone once a game. Also have given him Mighty Blow +1. That moves him away from his Background, quite a bit, but is the closest I can think of. Claws would be an option, too - but then I think the price needs to go up. Loner 4+.
    *** Plays for: Forest Goblins, Skink

    21. Karazara the Relentless --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Skink

    22. Shadow --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Chaos Halfling, Eshin Adepts, Forest Goblin, Gnoblar, Gnome, Goblin Cheaters, Nurglings, Pro Halflings, Pygmy, Skink, Skyre Slaves, Snotling, Squig Herders,

    23. Morris Meatgrinder --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Eshin Adepts, Gnome, Skyre Slaves

    24. Percival Pinchstik --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Strigoyan

    25. Slabb --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Gnoblar, Goblin Cheaters, Snotling

    26. Gong the Giant Gorilla --- Loner 4+, Wild Animal replaced with Unchannelled Fury.
    *** Plays for: Forest Goblin, Pygmy, Skink

    27. Baron von Spivakosky --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Horrors of Tzeentch, Strigoyan

    28. Puck --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Gnome, Pro Halfling (requires two free positions on team so Big Pudwick can join in)

    29. Big Pudwick --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Puck

    30. Chompa and Stompa --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Forest Goblin, Squig Herders

    31. Cusimano the Gentle Giant --- Loner 4+, final skill to be decided ---> poll.
    *** Plays for: Albion Fae, Gnome, Pro Halfling, Pygmy, Skink

    32. Thundershout Gristlegnasher --- Loner 4+, no changes.
    *** Plays for: Chaos Halfling, Eshin Adepts, Gnoblar, Goblin Cheaters, Horrors of Tzeentch, Nurglings, Skyre Slaves, Snotling, Squig Herders

    33. Lorebass --- No changes.
    *** Plays for: Everyone

    34. HotPot --- Loner 4+, gains Timmm-ber, as there is no reason why it can't be tipped upright again.
    *** Plays for: Pro Halfling


--- Skills currently not used as starting skills in any, that is team rosters or stars, of the above ---

This is more for info / reference. Might help with balancing and re-thinking things in the future. We can play with all these, to differentiate players and Teams or Stars more. I mainly wanted to recreate the rosters and stars as much as they were, so I am not touching or adding any of these "new" skills at this point.

    "Excuse me are you a Zoat"
    Animosity
    Arm Bar
    Baleful Hex
    Beer Barrel Bash
    Blast It!
    Blind Rage
    Brawler
    Break Tackle
    Brutal Block
    Bugman's XXXXXX
    Burst of Speed
    Cannoneer
    Consummate Professional
    Defensive
    Drunkard
    Dump-Off
    Frenzied Rush
    Fumblerooksie
    Fury of the Blood God
    Ghostly Flames
    Gored by the Bull
    Hit and Run
    Horns
    I'll be back!
    Incorporal
    Indomitable
    Iron hard skin
    Kaboom!
    Keen Player <--- that might actually be nice for snotlings. Anytime they fall below 11 players another one sneaks on. No idea what the client would do with many keen player players on the roster. I'd let them regenerate, too.
    Look Into My Eyes
    Lord of Chaos
    Maximum Carnage
    Mesmerizing Dance
    Monstrous Mouth
    Old Pro
    On the Ball
    Pick-Me-Up
    Primal Savagery
    Projectile Vomit
    Pump up the Crowd
    --- Q and on following ---


Last edited by Mnemon on Nov 27, 2022 - 03:23; edited 126 times in total
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 20:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Let them pass!!!!!

I don't mind setting up a base "league" where people can at least create teams. I probably won't put too much effort into promoting it or running it. Unless maybe I get kinda bored. Wink

You'll probably need to a create a new 2020 roster with the stars on it.
Like this one.
I believe that the stars should "just work" if you give them and the rosters the correct special rules.
Otherwise you can add them to the roster manually.

I think it will be less confusing if you remove the 2016 Stunty preset.

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Stunty Leeg 2020 - Coming soon!
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 20:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Ye the Stunty 2016 Preset is only there while I add Rosters - so I don't have to hunt for the reference.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 22:53 Reply with quote Back to top

You should touchbase with Foremole as well, as he converted them all for his Nuffle league. not saying you need to take his decisions, but they have been done
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 23:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you - will do. It's the star players where things will get really difficult.

Added one Smile.
Foremole



Joined: Nov 28, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 23:32 Reply with quote Back to top

They are rough translations, but it did use all the current rosters and secret rosters as a guide for the 2020 ruleset and conversions. I will be glad to provide that information, just need to figure out the best way to do so.
Foremole



Joined: Nov 28, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 23:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I also have converted all the Stunty star players to the 2020 ruleset as well:

https://fumbbl.com/p/race?id=5966

Already a problem with your Catapult. Due to current rules, it won't be able to throw a team mate due to the Throw Team-Mate change and 5 Str.
Foremole



Joined: Nov 28, 2009

Post   Posted: Oct 26, 2022 - 23:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Also, something else to note after taking a quick glance at the Albion group.

The AV you have is from the 2016 ruleset, it doesn't translate the same way.

A 6 Armor Value would be a 7+ AV in the 2020 ruleset. Right now the stunties are more frail than usual.
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 00:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you. Increased av on everything. And yes - stars will be the last thing I work on - thank you so much for your list; will help Smile.
mekutata



Joined: May 03, 2015

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 10:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Foremole wrote:
I also have converted all the Stunty star players to the 2020 ruleset as well:

https://fumbbl.com/p/race?id=5966

Already a problem with your Catapult. Due to current rules, it won't be able to throw a team mate due to the Throw Team-Mate change and 5 Str.


Use Kick Team Mate.

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Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 11:15 Reply with quote Back to top

mekutata wrote:
Use Kick Team Mate.


Yes, I'll likely do that for the Catapult. Went a different way with the gnome cannon, see above - and that might be controversial. So thoughts on that?
Norn



Joined: Mar 20, 2020

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 13:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Nice project Very Happy

A few things out the top of my head :

- Dwarven Cannon seems too good for the price ; looking at it I would just use it to base and hit opposing stunties with 3d blocks

- your chaos flings should be 30k in price IMO, and the spawn have AG2+ rn ^^

- Hypno gaze has become a lot more stronger in BB2020, you might want to increase price on the pixies & shamans, and probably have only 0-2 pixies ?
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes - but if you do use the dwarven cannon like that you don't understand what Stunty Leeg is. It's meant for you to go with chaos and embrace it. And again - I do NOT want to alter that. It is not meant to be something where you let out your competitiveness, but embrace the madness of it all. That always was the spirit behind the division - and that is something I don't want to lose.

Do not forget that most (they are still coming) other stunty teams have several big guys - so st5 is not hard to knock over for most of them.

Once the cannon is down, it is down, and hard to stand up again (you need to roll, below ma3; it won't get timber to help with that). Hence the low MA, and my thought of even going to MA1. So - you take a huge risk without block. Most stunties have dodge. Only a pow will cause a knock over and leave the cannon standing. Wrestle is a skill, now, too - which leaves it even more at risk.

[Something that is on the ground will be fouled.]

-----

For now I don't want to alter much; theorising is nice, but the practise will be different. Players in stunty league don't last long, and - due to the big guys - it's not rare the pitch is cleared in one half.

Making players too expensive means teams end in a death spiral. In my experience gnomes are probably too expensive, even, as I struggle to keep my team going: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=56417

I don't aim to balance these against the other official rosters - but only among themselves.
Dutys_Fist



Joined: Oct 04, 2010

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 18:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, nice project! Hope to see stunty leeg come back on fumbbl some day!
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 27, 2022 - 19:02 Reply with quote Back to top

We could do with a Stunty Leeg Group/League logo/banner.

If anyone has the skills.

Thanks.

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Stunty Leeg 2020 - Coming soon!
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