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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Hello, today I blocked a Snotling with my Grab Treeman.
The interface asked me to use Grab. I wanted to cancel Side Step, so I confirmed, but Side Step was not cancelled.

Then the Treeman blocked another Snotling (later, not on the same turn) but no dialogue pop-up asking to use Grab appeared this time.

So, is all right? It seems something is wrong to me.
Either the Grab pop-up should always appear or not.

Also, if I want to cancel Side Step on a block, shall I select to use Grab or not?
I thought so, but it didn't work as expected.
Both blocks were normal blocks, not Blitz actions.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Typically the popup only appears in a chain push or surf situation.


Edit as per 4 posts down:

The pop up is only talking about whether you want to push the target into any square - it will still cancel sidestep in either case.


Last edited by Nelphine on Dec 30, 2022 - 17:11; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:02 Reply with quote Back to top

The first block was a chainpush attempt, the second one it wasn't.
This is the replay: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&id=4427753

First block happened on Half 1, turn 8 (1TTD attempt). I set up my players for a chainpush, I selected to use Grab when asked, but Side Step still worked.
I'm sure I selected it because I was trying to make the chainpush.

The second block happened early on Half 2, instead, and it was not a chainpush, just a normal block.

So, I thought I made a mistake when I selected to use Grab on the block (maybe rule or interface had been changed), this is why I asked.
As far as I knew, selecting to use Grab should cancel Side Step. So, I was a bit confused.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry, cant look at the replay now.. did you have him surrounded so he couldn't move on the first block? Edit per my later post:

If not, and you chose to grab, you would be forced to use grab into the available square. Typically for a chain push you DON'T want to grab. So you'd say 'no'. This would still cancel sidestep, thus allowing you to chain push.


Last edited by Nelphine on Dec 30, 2022 - 17:12; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:23 Reply with quote Back to top

No, the Snotling wasn't surrounded, he had just the 3 squares behind him occupied.

So, should I have chosen not to use Grab in that situation?

Most of times, when I use Grab vs Side Step, is not to make a chainpush, and selecting Grab cancelled Side Step. I need to know how to handle the client in case of future chainpush attempts. Very Happy
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:27 Reply with quote Back to top

If you grab and it's a block, you cancel sidestep.

Edit:
The pop up only shows when you have the option of chainpushing or surfing, if you didn't use the grab ability to push to any square. So the pop up is specifically asking 'do you want to push to any square, or do a chain push?'

The wording may not be great right now, we're looking at cleaning it up.


Last edited by Nelphine on Dec 30, 2022 - 17:13; edited 3 times in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 14:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you very much! Next time I will blitz, then.
I didn't want to blitz with the Treeman because I could have needed a blitz elsewhere.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:10 Reply with quote Back to top

apparently I am wrong. pushing into any square is optional - so the pop up was specifically 'do you want to push into any square' or 'push normally, thus allowing chain pushing' - but you cancel sidestep in either case
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Side Step was not cancelled, I'm sure because I failed the 1TTD due to that.
I expected to cancel Side Step, so I was super frustrated.
Planning the right play and failing it due to external factors is annoying.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 30, 2022 - 17:19; edited 2 times in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:13 Reply with quote Back to top

except if you said 'yes', you were actually choosing 'yes i want to push to any square, i don't want to chain push'
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

The pop up was: "do you want to use Grab?" and I confirmed it, thinking to push normally the Side Step Snotling.

Using Grab for me meant to cancel Side Step.
I thought that NOT using Grab would have not cancelled Side Step.
I'm dumb for sure but the pop-up it's a bit misleading. It could be: "Do you want to use Grab? (Side Step will be used)."

I know, we must read the rules, but I was sure that confirming Grab would have cancelled Side Step.
It's not exactly intuitive.

Also, if using Grab doesn't counter Side Step, then not using Grab doesn't counter Side Step either?
It looks weird, then why taking Grab?
When the pop-up appeared it seemed logical to use Grab.


Last edited by MattDakka on Dec 30, 2022 - 17:26; edited 1 time in total
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top

it should have cancelled sidestep - its just that YOU got to use the grab feature to place into any empty square. if it actually allowed the opponent to use sidestep, that's still a bug, whereas i'm looking into the wording.

However, the wording actually pulls from the skill name, so it's not simple at all to try to change the wording. Can't say when or if it will be cleaned up.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 17:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you! Mind, I'm not complaining, just trying to understand the issue for the future.

Maybe Grab skill in the client has 2 aspects:

1) passive (counters automatically Side Step);

2) active (you can decide the push square);

maybe I should have not used Grab (the pop-up confirm could be about the active aspect and not about the passive).

Most of times Grab is not that important, but when it's about one turning it's crucial not to fail the chainpush.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 18:06 Reply with quote Back to top

yup, that's exactly what you should have done. grab is weird because it has two distinctive parts, so the pop up dialog doesn't work nicely with it. at the moment this is definitely a 'learn and remember for the future'
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2022 - 18:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I see, thank you very much! I got confused by the unclear pop-up.
Live and learn!
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