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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 16:50 Reply with quote Back to top

JR’s Blood Bowl, Third Season, Rules Proposals

Passing
* Wildly Inaccurate only applies on a modified 0 or less if you are throwing the ball, not on a modified 1. A modified 1 is still Wildly Inaccurate if anything else is being thrown, such as a bomb or teammate.

Stalling
* If a player is stalling, the opponent may roll 1d6 at the end of the team turn. On a 6, the player is hit by a rock thrown by a fan, and is Knocked Down.
* In overtime, the opponent may add +2 to this die roll.

Injuries
* 1-6 is Badly Hurt, 7-12 is Seriously Hurt. 13-14 is unchanged, but is now called Seriously Injured. There are no more niggling injuries.

Overtime
* Optional rule: the match ends whenever a Touchdown is scored, and the scoring team is the winner. Use this rule if your format requires overtime but real-world time is a significant concern.
* Optional rule: if there must be a winner but there is no time for Overtime, go to a shootout immediately. In this case, if one team cannot field 11 or more players, the team with more available players wins on ties on the shootout roll.
* Shootouts: roll 1d6, plus 1d6 for each Re-Roll counter the team has, and take the highest single result. The highest roll wins. Re-roll on ties.

Apothecary
* The Apothecary can be used to downgrade any injury other than Stunned by a single step on a 2+ on 1d6: Knocked Out becomes Stunned, Badly Hurt becomes Knocked Out, Seriously Hurt becomes Badly Hurt, a Lasting Injury is negated but the player still misses the next match, and Dead is replaced with a Lasting Injury. If the 1d6 roll is a 1, the Apothecary fails.
* The Apothecary may be used once per half, not just once per match. As with Team Re-Rolls, the second-half Apothecary may be used in Overtime but the Apothecary does not refresh for Overtime.
* Players with Decay are not subject to the Apothecary.

Prayers to Nuffle
* Prayers to Nuffle are now rolled on 1d8, not 1d16. Cheering Fans indicates one Prayer to Nuffle, not 1d3 Prayers. A tie on Cheering Fans indicates that both teams get the same Prayer. All Prayer results apply only to the team that acquired the Prayer. if a team gets more than one Prayer to Nuffle as a result of unspent Inducement cash, half the Prayers (round up) apply in the first half, the others in the second half.
1: Casualties inflicted on blocks are worth 3 SPP, not 2, for the rest of the half.
2: Completions and Superb Throws generating SPP are worth 2 SPP, not 1, for the rest of the half.
3: Interference and interceptions are worth double SPP for the rest of the half.
4: Casualties inflicted by fouls are worth SPP as if from blocks, for the rest of the half.
5: Casualties inflicted by the crowd count as Casualties for the blocking player, for the rest of the half.
6: The MVP for this match is worth 5 SPP, not 4.
7: One non-Loner player without Pro gains Pro for the rest of the half.
8: A random rostered player gets a primary skill of choice to use for the rest of the half.

Match Reporting
* Casualties sustained for any reason are considered Casualties inflicted for the opposing team. Only Casualties caused by blocks (thrown or received) merit SPP for the inflicting player (barring Prayers to Nuffle).

Skills and Traits
Agility
* Safe Pair of Hands is no longer an Agility skill, replaced by Hit and Run, per the Amazon Blitzer.
* Leap gives +1 on all Jump checks to jump over a prone player, in addition to the rules as provided, if the new square is not Marked.
General
* Dirty Player is just +1, there’s no other value.
* Shadowing is a blanket 5+, no table required. However, if the Shadowing player has a higher MA than the target, a +1 is applied to the roll.
Mutation
* Iron Hard Skin prohibits all Skill or Trait modifiers to the Armor roll. Other Armor roll modifiers and rules that bypass the Armor roll entirely are unaffected, as are the Special Abilities of Star Players, such as Crushing Blow.
Passing
* Cloud Burster is no longer a discrete skill, and is replaced in the table by Safe Pair of Hands, formerly an Agility skill.
* Fumblerooskie may be used spontaneously to fumble the ball if the throw would be Wildly Inaccurate. Fumblerooskie and Safe Throw together allow the player to hold the ball on a Wildly Inaccurate result.
* Running Pass can be used on Quick or Short passes that are accurate and caught by the intended receiver without bouncing.
* Safe Throw is changed. It now forces the interfering player to re-roll interference attempts unless they are marking the passing player, and allows the player to hold the ball if the throw would be fumbled. This skill may not be used on any action besides passing the ball.
Strength
* Arm Bar no longer exists. It is replaced by Piling On, below.
* Brawler allows the player to re-roll any number of both-down results, not just one.
* Mighty Blow is just +1, there’s no other value.
* Multiple Block adds +1 to the first opponent’s ST, and +2 to the second opponent’s ST.
* Pile Driver may be used when the player commits a foul and has not been spotted by the ref. The player is placed prone and may re-roll the AV or Injury roll. If the new roll is a double, the player is spotted by the ref as normal. Because the player is prone, skills that modify the AV and/or Injury rolls may not be used by this player on the re-roll or on any subsequent Injury roll caused by a successful Armor re-roll. Sneaky Git may not be used on the re-roll, but it may be used on the original Armor roll to prevent the player from being spotted by the ref and enable the player to use Pile Driver.
* Piling On allows the player to go prone and re-roll the AV or Injury roll caused by a knockdown occasiond by a block the player made against a prone opponent in its Tackle Zone. Because the player is prone, skills that modify the AV and/or Injury rolls may not be used by this player on the re-roll or any subsequent Injury roll caused by a successful Armor re-roll.
Traits
* Bloodlust grants a +2 on the roll if the player blocks or blitzes, rather than +1.
* Chainsaw kickbacks only result in turnover if the player is injured. Successful Chainsaw attacks do allow the Armor roll to be modified, but a Chainsaw attack replacing a block is not a block, so Mighty Blow and Piling On may not be used.
* If a player with Chainsaw is placed prone for any reason, make an Armor roll against them at +3.
* If an acting player with Chainsaw or Ball and Chain suffers an injury from being Placed Prone, this generates a turnover.

Rosters
* Amazons: Blockers are MA5, AG 4+, 115,000 gold. Throwers lose Safe Throw.
* Black Orcs: Goblin Bruisers are replaced with Goblins, per the Goblin roster. “Goblin Bruiser” becomes a 0-2 position at 50,000 gold, and are Goblins with Thick Skull and AG/PS access.
* Chaos Renegades: add a 0-1 Renegade Human Blitzer position: 7 3 3+ 5+ 9+ Juggernaut GS/A, 85,000 gold.
* Dark Elves: Linemen are 65,000 gold. Runners gain Nerves of Steel.
* Dwarfs: Deathroller is 160,000 gold, gets Dirty Player instead of Dirty Player (+2), gains Pile Driver.
* Elven Union: Blitzers are 110,000 gold. Throwers are 70,000 gold.
* High Elves: Linemen are PA 3+. Throwers lose Cloud Burster and are 90,000 gold.
* Imperial Nobility: Blitzers gain Dauntless. Throwers gain MA7 but are now AV8+. Retainer Linemen are 5, 3, 3+, 5+, 9+, Fend, G/AS, 50,000 gold. Re-Rolls are 60,000 gold.
* Old World Alliance: Dwarf Blockers lose Arm Bar and are 55,000 gold. All Dwarfs trade Loner 4+ for Loner 2+.
* Orcs: Linemen trade Animosity for Loner 2+ and get GS/A access. Big ‘Uns get PA6+ and Loner 2+. Goblins are 0-2 and get Loner 2+. Blitzers are 0-2, but are otherwise unchanged. Throwers are replaced with Runners, who are MA6 and trade Pass for Fumblerooskie, at 75,000 gold. (Blitzers and Throwers do not have Loner.) Trolls remain unchanged.
* Slann (Optional): Catchers cost 85,000 gold. Re-Rolls are 60,000 gold.
* Underworld: Remove the Snotlings from the roster.
* Vampires: Vargheist gets Bloodlust 4+, not 3+.
* Wood Elves: Catchers are PA 3+, Throwers are 90,000 gold.

Team Value
* Chosen primary skills add 15,000 gold to the player’s value.
* Chosen secondary skills add 30,000 gold to the player’s value.
* +PA adds 15,000 gold to the player’s value.
* +AG adds 30,000 gold to the player’s value.
* +ST adds 60,000 gold to the player’s value.
* The value of random skills, +AV, and +MA are unchanged.
* At Emerging Star and higher, characteristic increases and chosen skills add an additional 5,000 gold pieces each to the player’s value. Random skills are not subject to this rule.

Inducements
* Return to the RAW system with gold expenditures. Treasury spent for Petty Cash can only be spent in 10,000 gold increments and adds only half its value to the team's Petty Cash allotment.
* Bommer Dribblesnot is 90,000 gold. Kreek Rustgouger and Fungus the Loon are increased in cost by 25,000 gold. Morg N’ Thorg is 340,000 gold.
* Cindy Piewhistle loses Bombardier. All You Can Eat does not allow two throws but creates a special rule that acts more like the old Custard Pie; pass a pie as if it were the ball (except with the Wildly Inaccurate rules change above) and anyone in the occupied square is Placed Prone. The pass may be deflected, in which case it is negated entirely; it may not be intercepted. The player's cost is unchanged.
* Morg N’ Thorg and Deeproot Strongbranch get Mighty Blow and Crushing Blow in lieu of Mighty Blow +2. Lord Borak the Destroyer gets Dirty Player and Pile Driver in lieu of Dirty Player +2.
* Baleful Hex requires an unmodified Agility roll to be used successfully.

Redraft
* Base redraft value is 1,000,000 gold. Add an additional 100,000 gold per four matches played in the regular season, or portion thereof, and an additional 25,000 gold for every postseason tournament match played.
* Every 50,000 gold in Treasury adds 5,000 gold to redraft value, with no cap.
* A tournament win followed by redraft allows the team to add 50,000 gold to redraft value in lieu of adding value for leftover Treasury, presuming the team has less than 500,000 gold in Treasury. If the format allows more than one tournament to be played in a season, this benefit only applies once.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:41 Reply with quote Back to top

What about this anti-stalling rule?
On first turn of stalling, player hit by a rock on a 6+;
on second turn on a 5+, on third turn and further on a 4+. After a player has been hit by a rock the roll resets at 6+.

In my opinion 6+ every turn is not that risky.


Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 08, 2024 - 17:45; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:45 Reply with quote Back to top

It doesn't have to be super risky to be something of a deterrent. If you stall 3 turns, that's basically 5 in 12 to eat dirt. I don't want too much bookkeeping.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:47 Reply with quote Back to top

It can be if one turn is left, but with 2 or more turns left is not a big deal, in my opinion.
It's quite easy to surround the ball carrier with layers of tackle zones, just in case.

That said, 6+ every turn would be still better than no anti-stalling at all. It would make Fumblerooskie more useful.


Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 08, 2024 - 17:52; edited 1 time in total
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Stalling is ok, Wildly Inaccurate must not affect dedicated throwers making normal passes at all, otherwise it won't fix anything, Piling On should be gone for good forever, its removal was one of few good things in BB2020. I don't even know why the rest should be changed at all
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Dynamic stalling is ok, static stalling inside a cage is not ok because it's not risky. It's a game about risk-management.
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:54 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Dynamic stalling is ok, static stalling inside a cage is not ok because it's not risky. It's a game about risk-management.


It's not risky because the opponent doesn't make it risky.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:55 Reply with quote Back to top

SeriliKirico wrote:
Stalling is ok, Wildly Inaccurate must not affect dedicated throwers making normal passes at all, otherwise it won't fix anything, Piling On should be gone for good forever, its removal was one of few good things in BB2020. I don't even know why the rest should be changed at all


Old PO was too good, but the killstack is too shallow now, so a nerfed version is desirable. Part of the plan is to improve the random skill tables by improving or replacing the lame skills, and I have had a heck of a time fixing Arm Bar, it just sucks unless you make it broken.

A single permutation on Wildly Inaccurate will prevent it 100% of the time on short passes or long passes with Cannoneer. I thought about fixing it so that if it comes up on range, sun, or Disturbing Presence, it deviates from the target, or from the passer's square if marked, but that seems cumbersome.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi


Last edited by JackassRampant on Feb 08, 2024 - 17:59; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:56 Reply with quote Back to top

SeriliKirico wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Dynamic stalling is ok, static stalling inside a cage is not ok because it's not risky. It's a game about risk-management.


It's not risky because the opponent doesn't make it risky.


It's hard to make it risky when not enough players are left to make it risky.
If you want we can play a game so you can show me how to make it risky.
I play a bash team and you play an agile team. Vampires can make it risky because they can gaze a cage, but "normal" agile teams struggle to siege a cage.


Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 08, 2024 - 17:59; edited 1 time in total
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 17:59 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:

Old PO was too good, but the killstack is too shallow now, so a nerfed version is desirable. Part of the plan is to improve the random skill tables by improving or replacing the lame skills, and I have had a heck of a time fixing Arm Bar, it just sucks unless you make it broken. A single permutation on Wildly Inaccurate will prevent it 100% of the time on short passes or long passes with Cannoneer.


Who has measured that shalowness and how it's decided it's "too" shallow? There are quite a few complaints on Cyanide's discords about 3-5 dead player per match (not just elves or rats). How much is "enough" then? I would say if half-a team removals happen to you or your opponent s on a regular basis - that's already "too much", in fact. I would prefer to play a football game, first of all


Last edited by SeriliKirico on Feb 08, 2024 - 18:02; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 18:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe that's an argument for moving BH back to 1-8. The blocking game just doesn't have enough bells and whistles, IMO. I try to resolve this by improving the Apothecary.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
SeriliKirico



Joined: Sep 13, 2017

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 18:02 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

It's hard to make it risky when not enough players are left to make it risky.
If you want we can play a game so you can show me how to make it risky.
I play a bash team and you play an agile team.


So there are cases when static cages can be risky, after all? And who and how will decided when it's a "non-risky static cage" to punish it? May be instead of over-complicating rules it could be just written off as rare issue?
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 18:05 Reply with quote Back to top

When a bash team outnumbers an agile team (very often) the cage is not risky. Bash teams tend to have high Strength players, Guards and high AV. It's very common that a bash team cages close to opponent's End Zone and then waits until turn 8 comes.
It's not a rare issue, it's a very common situation.
It's so common that I stopped defending with my Elves, because it's futile.


Last edited by MattDakka on Feb 08, 2024 - 18:06; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 18:05 Reply with quote Back to top

That's not rare. But I see being able to stall with impunity as a reward for good play/dice. Hence stalling risk but not a huge one.

_________________
Veni, Vidi, Risi
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 08, 2024 - 18:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Good play? Not really hard to throw 2d blocks until removals happen. It's very easy and dice-based.
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