chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
|
 Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 13:43 |
 
|
Claw/RSC hasn't really been a problem. There has only ever really been one claw/RSC machine and he was shortlived (cos we killed him!).
DP on the other hand is in vogue, and is probably mainly mine/I-House's fault. I do enjoy a good boot, and it was rather fitting for I-House to go this way, given the absolute towelling they got in there first couple of seasons (which was reduced to only 2.5 CAS taken per game once the DP's started their work).
I think there are a few reasons we seeing the rise of the dark side so to speak at the moment:
1) A few seasons back, there was a bit of a relaxation on the restrictions. This allowed a lot of bashy into qpool, and they're only now coming right through the ranks. Changes at the entry level do take a few seasons to trickle through the system.
2) A number of the highly ranked agile teams retired, and their coaches moved to bashier teams - primary one I can think of here is Nev moving from the Chaingang to Smackdown - after 4 or 5 seasons though, the poor old chaingang were looking pretty beat up.
3) Not enough good agility team players - I still see a lot of players trying to play agile teams as bashers - thus leading to them getting smashed and further propagating the bashy team myth, which is a big part of it. A lot of people seem to give up against a bashy team before the game even starts, play like muppets, then wonder why they copped a lot of pain.
4) Bad team management - I definitely see a lot of this. Agility teams want lots of players. Fire you're nigglers, buy linemen, and try and pickup positionals only during a purple patch of money. Too many grab positionals then wonder why they have no treasury left. Another thing, if you have a qpool team you intend to promote, don't go playing a heap of games after hitting the cap and have to fire perfectly good players - you're just asking to get smashed out of the league once you get promoted doing that.
Agile teams can and do do quite well in this league - have a look at the premier championship history if you don't believe me. I-House fared very well throughout their history, and their retirement was mainly due to me feeling they'd played out there story and looking for something new rather than them not being viable - they were still well over TR200 at the time, and picnic would have seen them fully recovered. This is despite 4 seasons in SWL, usually in the bashiest division in the entire league. If you don't think I-House were an agility team because of a couple of DP's, you're smoking something - the DP's were distractions that occasionally drastically overperformed, nothing more = their prescence generally prompted people to go after them, freeing up the pitch a bit more for my other players. |
|
|
chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 04, 2004 - 14:11 |
|
BTW, on another note, Ninja Fling Resurrection have managed to amass a stupidly high 92 points throughout this lil league season! That has to be some kind of record.
On a more serious note though, I do think the mere fact that such a silly score (and the chainsaw CAS aren't even included!) can be generated shows that the lil league scoring system is in dire need of an overhaul.
It's pretty abundantly obvious that TD's are far harder to get in lil league than CAS, and like the scoring to reflect this. The scoring as it stands very much encourages a player to simply belt the piss out of the other team. Not that this is all bad, but a bit of variety would be nice.
Personally, I'd like to see something like this:
10 points for a win, 2 for a draw, 0 for a loss
3 points per TD
1 point per CAS
This would much more put the onus on actually trying to win the game, something that teams should be trying to do regardless of their particular capabilities. It would provide a far more balanced league, rather than allowing the killer teams (such as the Resurrection) to run rampant.
I think the fall in enthusiasm levels for lil leeg show that some changes need to be made. |
_________________
chunky - you are eloquence on legs |
|
ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 05, 2004 - 10:43 |
|
Hi all,
Been busy with RL... so havent been about... but to answer a few points...
Whitey raised the issue of lower division promotion...
Well there is no hard rule, but it goes like this...
If a Conf coach disappears for an extended period without notice, then they will be relegated to Swamp. Top placed Swamp team at the time will be promoted to the Conf spot.
Similarly if I have a Swamp team not playing, then I will drop them to QPool and promote the most active coach (given you only get 1 point) in QPool.
I do notice that the Swamp has only generated 2 games, and one coach has played both of those! I am also aware that a few guys have earned 7-9 QPool points... a shuffle looks to be on the cards already  |
|
|
ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 07, 2004 - 11:47 |
|
<b>LEAGUE NEWS</b>
Due to a conference coach being missing from last season, <b>Whitey</b> has been promoted from the Swamp to Conference League.
Therefore, <b>Zippy_Wonderdog</b> has been promoted to Swamp!
Congrats to both these guys... |
|
|
ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 07, 2004 - 13:13 |
|
<b>Round 1 Extensions</b>
All, the following extensions have been granted until TUESDAY night... anybody else outstanding runs the risk of the forfeit...
<b>Forza Ferrari vs Soft n Fluffy</b> - WEST CONFERENCE
<b>Fyord Frollikars vs Jungle Commandos</b> - SOUTH CONFERENCE.
<b>Damage Incorporation vs Perth Gory</b> - SOUTH CONFERENCE
Anyone else experiencing difficulties, contact swladmin@hotmail.com |
|
|
Snorri
Joined: Jun 07, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 08, 2004 - 04:23 |
|
Bob_Borc has been hittin the books!
New teams updated, so let me know if Bob's ignored yer lads after a game. I dont think he's ever won any spelling bees.
He's also done some math recently, although I shouldn't talk about it for long - he's not fussed on flaunting his new found skills. Hopefully this means his comments should be a little less random post game.
If for some reason they turn out not to be, whack him over the head (just be prepared to wear the roundhouse that'll come right back at ya) and do let me know by pm.
Cheers,
Snorri.
ps - totally agree with chunks' perspective on the little league, as much as the mayhem in lil league is enjoyable, their are non-bashy teams and it does completely negate the enjoyment that teams like fairies get out of taunting their opponents when they outscore their opponents only to find they've actually lost on game points. |
|
|
chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 08, 2004 - 13:01 |
|
G'day guys, as mentioned earlier, I reckon there are a number of problems in the existing lil leeg structure.
Problems:
Scoring system too greatly skewed towards bashing
Large amounts of variation in enthusiasm of participants
No ownership of teams
I reckon the scoring I proposed earlier solves the first problem:
10 points for a win, 2 for a draw, 0 for a loss
3 points per TD
1 point per CAS
But the second is a thorny one. An open round robin allows much more flexibility to accomodate the variability in enthusiasm, but doesn't have the motivation of a more structured league.
What I'm proposing is a dual structure similar to normal SWL, with a puddle and a premier division. This way the keenest coaches will likely end up in Premier and be able to handle a second structured tourney, while the less keen will still have an outlet for some SWL based stunty goodness.
The last problem is caused by coaches being able to chop and change teams at will. I'd like to see some teams with history built up in lil leeg - even if they are short histories  Thus there will be no more chopping and changing next season.
This should make lil leeg in general a very chaotic affair, as the natural attrition rate of stunty will make it hard to stay in Premier for long. Anyone swapping teams between seasons will go back to Puddle.
Not sure what size Premier would be or how promotion/relegation would work at at this stage (though I'd like to see promo/releg be very dynamic and cutthroat to keep the lil leeg fresh). Mostly just posting current thinking so I can get feedback and do some finetuning. I don't think there is much doubt the season as it stands isn't working. |
|
|
JoeKano
Joined: Aug 30, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 08, 2004 - 15:40 |
|
Well my Tinkerers have been in now for a while and whilst periodically i despair of them i still play on, But at the moment i am gving away several handicaps to everyone i play. its kinda depressing, they are Gnomes for chrissakes, they could be 200 pts and still be easy meat for any other startup team, except maybe the skyre slaves who seem to eb the next worst idea in history of the game. |
_________________
"Take the Strength, crush the opposing linemen, drive them broken before you and hear the lamentation of their Cheerleaders!!!"
 |
|
annachie
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 08, 2004 - 23:55 |
|
Sounds good Chunky.
So what your proposing is basically, a serious round robin and an S-Pool so to speak. Or should that be a wading pool. (Kinda like the QPool, only shorter  )
One question is wether coaches can have a league team and a pool team, and if there are going to be caps in the pool
[quote=chunky04]What I'm proposing is a dual structure similar to normal SWL, with a puddle and a premier division.[/quote]
Would that make any team that get's promoted a puddle jumper?
For the first season, why not just ask all the leeg coaches who wants to be in what league, and then divy up the premier requests by rough TR. Work on 8 or so teams a division. (8 teams would be 7 weeks which I think takes us to past Christmas by the time things start)
Then decide on where the league goes during the Christmas break (If there is one) or the next Picnic. Whichever comes first.
Premier, Puddle, and SPool perhaps.
If you want to take the stunties even further, you could hold a Donut Challenge, sponsered by the Whipy Boys(sp?), being a Leeg knock-out picnicy type affair.
[/quote] |
|
|
chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 00:44 |
|
Nah, there would only be one team per player. I'm actually thinking of making it a bigger division, possibly not playing everyone in there though if need be. It would definitely only be Puddle and Premier, though if it works out further expansion could be possible at a later stage. |
_________________
chunky - you are eloquence on legs |
|
annachie
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 00:50 |
|
Not that I've hecked, but I was thinking of the TR differences between current Div 1 sides, and any new sides. I suppose a season in the puddle, kinda like normal actually, before going into the rounds would bea good thing. (Says he who is going to enter a new team ) |
|
|
Covertfun
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 05:16 |
|
Bashy teams survive better. 
Fair enough that someone as gifted as chunky04 can say: | Quote: | | 3) Not enough good agility team players - I still see a lot of players trying to play agile teams as bashers - thus leading to them getting smashed and further propagating the bashy team myth, which is a big part of it. A lot of people seem to give up against a bashy team before the game even starts, play like muppets, then wonder why they copped a lot of pain. |
but we're not all as lucky as chunky04 with his brilliant and incisive ability to generate an "Ag team with an Ogre and 2 Dirty Players and 4 Guard blitzers" 
It'd never crossed my feeble muppet brain to build an Ag team with an ogre in it. I remember thinking that Av8 might protect my players a bit, but never had the coaching ingenuity to hire an ogre or 4 blitzers. If only I'd thought to have cheaper catchers as well... but I guess I'm not as good a coach as chunky. 
And as for Neverborn - he clearly doesn't have the same coaching skill as chunky... i mean sure, he occasionally won the premier league, but he couldn't get his FF up for sh**, and as for the lack of Guard and/or an Ogre, well... the roster speaks for itself.
For myself, having coached the Reagents through an annoying last two seasons where aging and costly players exaggerated the difficulties of being a stupid coach, i decided to continue the cycle of abuse and created the Wicker Men, a foul-machine Undead team. Now, I'm a better coach than chunky! 
My Agility team the Wicker Men has TWO mummies (which are like ogres but slower and smarter) and FOUR DP! It was the stroke of genius that had to come after coaching a team of high elves - why not create an AG team with lower Agility scores, but better killing skills?
I owe it all to chunky04, setting me free from traditional constraints defining "bashy" and "agility" teams according to their players. Now I understand the beauty of a system where so long as you are not a crap coach, you can have an "agility" team with 2 DPs an Ogre and four Guard Blitzers. 
So really, chunky, neverborn just chose a more fun agility team than dark elves who have no access to ogres - Khemri! An AG team with Four mummies! What could be more AG!? 
Thank god I'm not a muppet any more - if only I'd cottoned on earlier and created an Agility team like the Southside StoneSmashers or the Zen Adepts.  |
|
|
Zippy_Wonderdog
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 05:26 |
|
Meh, I stand by the strategy, take enough of them down so they can't stop you, you only need to look at the Black Water Blitzers to see how well it has served me, fans still hate them though...stupid fans. |
|
|
annachie
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 06:49 |
|
and yet the Boozers try to survive on the passing game. Also with no Ogre I hope you notice |
|
|
Drokmar
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Nov 09, 2004 - 10:04 |
|
| JoeKano wrote: | | except maybe the skyre slaves who seem to eb the next worst idea in history of the game. |
Skryre Slaves Worst idea apart from Dwarfs? Surely your not talking about thier playing ability? The have a higher average Tr than Cheaters and the highest TR is almost 200 already. (Ironically It's Miyuso's team). I'm going to go with a Slave team in the next season
| annachie wrote: | | If you want to take the stunties even further, you could hold a Donut Challenge, sponsered by the Whipy Boys(sp?), being a Leeg knock-out picnicy type affair. |
Donut Challenge? Naah, Call it the Tea Party It's like a picnic, only the sort of thing dollies have, little things, so stunty for it makes sense.
I like the idea of a return to Puddle. Hopefully it'll get more people interested, but i'd like more than one team personally, I love Stunty. Sooo much death, so little time.
Kath |
|
|
|
|
| |
FUMBBL HAIKU'S
Search
