GLN: OK, there are some maybe more 'niche' new skills as well. Are we actually going to see them? juggernaut for example? who is going to take that, and why?
JockMcRowdy: wild animals need jugger for them to be useful you need to be blitzing regularly, and jugger means you don’t have that 1/9 fail anymore
jimmyfantastic: No doubt pact and CD minos and rat ogres will take juggernaut, chaos minos will probably want to mutate a lot. never taken by a non big guy I imagine
awambawamb: Frenzied players will take juggernaut to enjoy the crowds with fresh meat of sidesteppers!
freak_in_a_frock: When I was testing in the beta division I did put juggernaut on my wolf, just for testing purposes mind. It was a completely wasted skill once I had tested it. The problem is that only players that lack general access need it, and even then these players usually have loner, and therefore you don't want to be wasting your blitz with them
GLN: It is one of the skills that seems to cancel a lot of others. Is that a good thing? And is it really enough to counter Freaks concerns? Won’t big guys with jugger still be a liability blitzing?
JockMcRowdy: I can see it popping up in league formats, where your opponents might go with fend teams or have lots of stand firm. but it lessens the risk, and there isn’t a wealth of skills to choose from
turboraton: Blitzing with big guys it’s ALWAYS a risk.
freak_in_a_frock: I still think it will just cover up newbie’s lack of skill. since newbie’s will be the only ones that will want to blitz with their big guy
turboraton: go Rat Ogre! I tell you, CRP is a Skaven conspiracy
awambawamb: Big guys are also a pain of those new rules
JockMcRowdy: I always want to blitz with a snow troll, he wants to play!!!
jimmyfantastic: hey I loved blitzing with my snow troll, str 5 MB PO claw men are good
JockMcRowdy: to be honest I agree that it’s pointless, but a nutter that can’t be stopped like frenzy actually fits in with BB fluff, so I like it
GLN: And then we come to sneaky git, is it just a bone thrown to the goblins? or will we see elf SG's?
freak_in_a_frock: Absolutely pointless skill
jimmyfantastic: yes sneaky git totally sucks as does fouling in general now
awambawamb: nowadays you wouldn't foul someone if you're not sure to pass the armour roll, so there's little use for SG
freak_in_a_frock: Sneaky git only works when you failed at what you wanted to do anyway. The only way sneaky git will ever be good is if they get it to combine with dirty player properly
JockMcRowdy: I misread sneaky git on first read, I thought it said it cancelled being caught on armour rolls reducing sending off to 1/6
jimmyfantastic: that would have been much better rule jock
turboraton: Yeah it is an Under Powered skill, but hey the name rocks. Sneaky Git, think of a Chaos Warrior getting it on a double
JockMcRowdy: thinking that it would be cool for stunties and elves I thought it rocked, however it doesn’t do that and is the second worst skill in the entire game
freak_in_a_frock: Basically you need to have the option to +1 to the armour roll, meaning that if it is a double that won't break armour unless the +1 is added. If you then get the option to +1 or not , then it would be ok
turboraton: which one is the #1 useless skill jock?
JockMcRowdy: kick off return
jimmyfantastic: hah yeah noobs love it though for some reason!
GLN: I wasn't even going to bother asking. lets do it quickly, anyone have anything good at all to say about Kick off return?
freak_in_a_frock: again it is a good way to cover a lack of skill, it means that you can cage easier if your set up sucked
turboraton: why do you think it’s a bad skill? Yeah it’s not a stellar skill but it can help on the critical 2turn TD
awambawamb: not bad, imho
freak_in_a_frock: it is the counter to the 'kick' skill. As we have already said this rule set is all about counters
JockMcRowdy: well with bad kick gone kick isn’t all that wonderful either now
freak_in_a_frock: now that kick is optional I’d argue it is even better
GLN: Right, let’s change style. Mutations have changed. Easier to get, some the same, some very different. What are the good and the bad mutation changes?
turboraton: Two Heads baby, it's all about the two heads.
freak_in_a_frock: it does make the teams far more generic. In fact now it has become too normal to see a mutant taking to the pitch. Before it was special to have a freak on the team
jimmyfantastic: I think I like the claw change. I think that disturbing presence and foul appearance could have remained as one skill, I can't see anyone taking either now.
JockMcRowdy: foul appearance split into 2 has made them both not worth taking now
turboraton: many of times you think your cage is safe, and the 2 headed gobbo can do an easy 2+ with rr to get the assist you need. On the other teams, getting 2 heads is almost like a poor mans +agi for the storm vermin’s
JockMcRowdy: that’s what I was meaning about traits, the joy of rolling a double on chaos or Skaven and deciding how to shape the player
freak_in_a_frock: The problem with traits though was that your team development was based too much on luck. The traits were too over-powered compared to normal skills
awambawamb: Claw got nerfed and they trashed RSC. Mutation gobbos are now stars if they get two heads!
JockMcRowdy: tentacles is too easy to escape now, the BON no longer strikes fear, I like the changes to horns and extra arms though
turboraton: how about Big Hand on the gutters? sounds like a good idea to me
JockMcRowdy: or the pact de, yep leaping big hand ag4
jimmyfantastic: yeah horns very nice for chaos. Very Long Legs have also a secondary rule that can be confusing. It's hard to keep track of all "this-counters-this" in RL
freak_in_a_frock: Anyone else think that the VLL change was made just to accommodate slann teams? which seems a little arse about face to me
JockMcRowdy: definitely, and because it was no longer a double, you couldn’t have +ma for less TV
awambawamb: They wanted to see things jump, probably because one of the developers bought a trampoline, and here we go.
GLN: Horns need no run up as long as you are blitzing and extra arms seems to help with everything to do with the ball. Did they get too buffed?
JockMcRowdy: no they are fine, did anyone ever actually choose either of them before? other than gutters
freak_in_a_frock: Horns also got a nerf by not combining with dauntless now
jimmyfantastic: no-one took em then and no-one will take them before claw now
JockMcRowdy: that was necessary though, a str 2 gutter taking on anything for 2 dice was silly
awambawamb: I don't like the new Horns, it doesn't have the background. A Horned player was supposed to *charge* the blitz from distance, not sprinting up like a spring
GLN: and on we go. So, a lot of other skills got changed. What’s the best changed skill, and why?
freak_in_a_frock: Of course we all forget that thick skull is no longer a mutation. that has made a huge difference, well someone might take it on a troll at some point
JockMcRowdy: I don’t really like any of the skills changes it’s my biggest CRP complaint so ill go with diving catch, at least now it has a vague use and will occasionally get chosen. thick skull is still a waste of time as a skill choice unless restricted to S
turboraton: I get it on my big guy sometimes after guard and the usual double
JockMcRowdy: you would occasionally want TS on fodder but more than likely it will cost you a double better spent elsewhere
jimmyfantastic: I like that they made Piling On too powerful. Thick Skull is awful as a choice but a nice bonus on the players that start. no way should you pay even 20 TV for it
freak_in_a_frock: best skill is and always will be block
turboraton: I agree on that
awambawamb: I don't really have a preferred one changed skill. But Horns is nicer now, even if it's like cheating
freak_in_a_frock: even the counter of wrestle doesn't stop Block being the best, but it is a boring choice. We can all pretend we love other skills, but it will still be the first skill we all choose the most often
JockMcRowdy: I’m an elf man, dodge is usually choice no1
freak_in_a_frock: I like that stab skill, but I have a love for assassins that no-one else shares
jimmyfantastic: I think Guard is better than Block but for sure Block is more essential
awambawamb: Block or Wrestle, depends on your race, high Mv races will choose Wrestle more than Block
JockMcRowdy: honestly I’m surprised there isn’t 'Counter Guard - you can prevent someone in your tackle zone using the guard skill'
freak_in_a_frock: ..coming soon to a pitch near you...
jimmyfantastic: they could have added it to juggernaut