Posted by Sp00keh on 2025-07-07 12:06:11
All very true, good stuff
Sometimes you can sabotage an opponent's drive by giving them blocks so that they'll send too many of their players to the wrong part of the pitch
Sometimes it's even worth getting your player surfed, to control where their players go
Every axiom that coaches learn has situations that are exceptions, and yea, learning when to do something 'wrong' is important. Some turns the best thing to do is open with a -2dice, for example
"It's easy to mess up in an aggressive defensive style, and it's not always right to use one."
Definitely
I think there's value in trying different stuff during a drive, playing turns differently. It means you're testing out options to find what works, but also means you're more unpredictable for the opponent.
If they know you're just gonna reform columns again, they can attempt to go into contact more, and make you roll more dodges for example
Posted by JackassRampant on 2025-07-07 16:56:28
This is where properly internalizing the math in the game can really matter.
Posted by koadah on 2025-07-08 11:32:45
I wouldn't say "constantly unlearning what you have learned". I'd say "building on it".
Unless you mean with the constant chopping & changing of the rules. :(
Feel free to drop into 145 to spread the knowledge.
https://discord.gg/x8AmNEZYbs
Posted by gettym on 2025-07-08 19:27:13
Great discussion here.
I have so many questions when it comes to elves. I used to mark a lot with elves and essentially learned by experience to not mark and just fall back into columns, because I suffered a lot of games where I had half a team by the second half. In addition to losing those games, those games were just a lot less fun.
But as you point out, simply falling back into columns (if I can't try to split the other team) often does feel like it makes things too easy for my opponent until the final turn when they try to use all their rerolls to 4+, 4+, 4+ with three rerolls in their pocket, which (if my math isn't garbage) would have a 42ish% success rate for them.
Obviously the key, as you note, is marking the other team in such a way that you limit their 2-die blocks. Here's the rub for me, because this kind of thing requires being really good as a coach when it comes to spacing. I find that when I'm facing a lot of guard and a mix of 4ST opponents, even when I think I've done this, I've allowed an easy move into a 2-die that quickly cascades into a series of 2 dies.
So in the end, my coaching weakness forces me to choose not to mark, since simply defaulting to that strategy doesn't require a lot of higher thinking or "internalized math" (I like that phrase from @JackassRampant, though I may not be using it exactly as he meant it because in this case it's more like "internalized geometry".)
All of which is a long way to say, I dig what you're saying, and I'd like to get there some day.
Posted by Drrek on 2025-07-08 23:54:53
@gettym, that is one reason I like often to receive first. Players are easier against most coaches to keep alive on offense, so if I can score on turn 8 of a successful drive, then half 2 I can treat my players like the resources they are to stop the score and win 1-0 or 2-0. I don't care if half my team is out if I win.
But, yes, with elfs it is harder to be aggressive correctly, but they are also more able than most to capitalize on failures.
Also, this is another reason why I say that most coaches value benches too lowly. Really, once I fan afford it on basically every team, I want at least 13 players. Easier to play good defense when you are less worried about being below 11 for the next drive.
Posted by Chingis on 2025-07-09 21:06:19
Though it's not entirely about worrying about a second half with fewer players, is it? There's also this half to consider! Screening off an opposition team with eleven elves is relatively automatic, with nine elves it becomes significantly trickier. So this turn do you want to give up a potential player or a potential square or two: the calculation changes as the half progresses, doesn't it?