licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
|
 Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 00:24 |
 
|
I suppose it depends on where you are playing goo.
I can see R WEs cycling trees successfully at least. Perhaps it wouldn't be the best idea for B, but then again, you could also sweet spot your WEs below heavy cpomb areas with your 3 skill tree and super star war dancers.
Lots of ways to look at it, like I said, it should be interesting to see what people try, and then what people decide works best.
Of course I don't even like using the Tree in my WE teams, so it's sort of moot to me, but I can see how certain teams that might like to play with a BG now have more incentive to use one, since it's easier for them to at least get guard/stand firm/whatever on them quickly.
I'm still not sure that the end result will be positive overall though. Some teams seem sort of designed so that skilling certain players is supposed to be difficult. Now? Well the nurg haters are not really wrong about how this benefits the warriors tremendously. To me this sort of implies that you will see more cpomb (or less the po...) at lower TVs, because those teams will have leaner rotters/prestis.
I feel sort of uneasy about lizards too, skink cycling will still be a thing, but lizards really will not have the same incentive to attempt scores with the sauri (though they still should be doing it when practical). It means more 6x block+ sauri at lower TVs with just one or two ss/<foo> skinks.
Now good or bad is that? Neither really, just an adjustment everyone will need to go through. I suppose it fits with the seasons notion then that you lower the TV of all teams while still allowing them to keep their preferred builds. But we're hashing out seasons elsewhere anyway...
<edit> I'm not crazy, goo really did make a post, but I guess he didn't want to get sucked into whatever he didn't want to get sucked into  |
|
|
Rags
Joined: Nov 09, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 01:34 |
|
| thoralf wrote: | Every race is improved. The question is which are more than the others.
This is an empirical matter, and BB is unfair by design.
So the question is moot. |
Thoralf, I respect your contributions and insights, but this is complete BS.
By your logic, discussion of any rule change affecting balance would be moot, since 'BB is unfair by design'.
But even that logic doesn't hold up. Why the reduction of everything to fairness/unfairness?
This is a discussion about a change to the game rules. Of course it matters to the game, of course coaches are interested it, and of course it's worth discussing. Balance is just one aspect of that discussion, whic is far from moot. |
|
|
thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:08 |
|
| Rags wrote: | | By your logic, discussion of any rule change affecting balance would be moot, since 'BB is unfair by design. |
I seldom use arguments by design, rags. This time I did because there is a quote from DZ1 that says it. I will quote it when I won't be on my tablet.
That argument was only meant to prevent another excuse for another The book of Dakka excursion. If this discussion becomes an excuse to bash the new rules because they lead to an unfair situation, then the point is moot. Welcome to BB.
My overall point depends more on the other argument. All the Monday morning quarterbacking is all well and good. It still remains an empirical question.
The main question has already been answered.
My shortest answers today have been written on my new Asus Zentablet. I cannot say they had a Zen effect. I will try to work on this. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git.
Last edited by thoralf on %b %30, %2016 - %02:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
|
happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:09 |
|
| PurpleChest wrote: | surely most FUMBBLers will select the three players that did the fluffiest things in the game?
That lineman that hung tough, the rookie with the key blitz and the oh god I can't even write it jokingly.
No. This will be ruthlessly meta-gamed and the killers/fillers stars/scrubs Heroes/zeroes formula will be more strictly adhered to than ever. |
I see the wisdom in your dwarf assessment, and I suspect that it translates to a lesser extent toward other teams as well. I would imagine Lizards as another team that is fantastic at low TV with hard to skill up Sauri get a nice boost in this ruleset.
Other teams at low TV are likely to do well too (giving the MVP a 100% chance of staying on a WD or catcher, for example, means woodies are going to get ripped in a hurry).
Nurgle and others with hard to skill positionals can take advantage of MVPs but are getting hit hard by the rebuilding side of things.
One thing I find encouraging: They seem to have set themselves up for future changes (such as bringing back a wizard) with the seasonal rulebooks. I am hoping that feedback over the next year could translate into tweaking the system, but maybe that is just me being wishful. |
_________________
Come join us in #metabox, the Discord channel for HLP, ARR, and E.L.F. in the box!
 |
|
xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:21 |
|
| happygrue wrote: | | I am hoping that feedback over the next year could translate into tweaking the system, but maybe that is just me being wishful. |
Once, I would've agreed that you were being altogether too wishful there. But the way they are handling this release is a distinct change for GW (in particular Andy Hoare and James Hewitt's engagement with the BB Community facebook group), and one that makes me think you're entirely within your rights to have those hopes.
On a related note, anyone at all interested in the topic who isn't a member of that group should really consider joining. It is worth remembering that the majority of players they hear from (and their target market, to be fair) are TT players. Don't be surprised if perpetual leagues are never considered if we never mention them to the creators... |
_________________
 Nerf Ball 2014 |
|
Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:23 |
|
| happygrue wrote: |
One thing I find encouraging: They seem to have set themselves up for future changes (such as bringing back a wizard) with the seasonal rulebooks. I am hoping that feedback over the next year could translate into tweaking the system, but maybe that is just me being wishful. |
I for one have the inner - and completely irrational, almost nonsensical - belief that they will address the perpetual environment in future installments of Death Zone. Season 2 or 3. Probably 2. |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:25 |
|
Ill have what Uedder is having |
|
|
thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:43 |
|
Fesse de Bouc... I really must be a BB nut to consider returning there. A madman's gotta do what a madman's gotta do. |
_________________
There is always Sneaky Git. |
|
keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 02:47 |
|
I really dislike this MVP process. I hate Farming, and this is a way to aid it. What is a guy like me to do? Nothing. Ill use it. Maybe Ill change my mind. |
_________________
The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
|
Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
|
One thing I see from a FUMBBL admin side is that it could reduce concessions. If your getting the snot beaten out of you and all of your fancy positionals are BH you might happily play through the game because you know theres at least 5spp out there going where you most likely want it.
Keeps the grief teams from getting piles of unwarranted cash and might lighten the mood of a horrid loss by being all "hahaha, jokes on you elfy McElferson has a 1/3 chance of becoming a legend after this". |
|
|
mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 03:09 |
|
| keggiemckill wrote: | | I really dislike this MVP process. I hate Farming, and this is a way to aid it. What is a guy like me to do? Nothing. Ill use it. Maybe Ill change my mind. |
This requires a good faith actor across the table but you could ask your opponent to nominate. |
|
|
Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 09:23 |
|
Licker - I decided that we have enough cyclical white noise going on without adding to it myself. Sorry to be confusing.
Facebook - If you're not careful, the group will test your faith in humanity. It's 100 parts argument, grandstanding and nonsense to one part useful nugget. If you're OK with those odds, have a read. |
|
|
Pro511
Joined: Aug 14, 2006
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 14:11 |
|
Wow, this topic took off!
Lots of good observations. One of my observations is that, if it helps some teams a lot, and some teams a little, then, comparatively, it hurts those that it doesn't "help a lot". [That may be the worst sentence I've ever written so I'm leaving it to celebrate the accomplishment.]
I think it's a bit trickier to find which teams are helped less (and therefore are comparatively hurt.) As I mentioned, I would think Chaos would suffer. I always liked the fact that the SPPs went onto my warriors and they got STR4 block very quickly. Funneling SPPs onto linos to skill them up faster helps a little, but since it doesn't help a lot, it hurts comparatively.
I think you are all right about Lizardmen. That's kinda huge.
I think most coaches are going to feel like hit helps but "Yay, I got to funnel my spps to the human linemen that needed it to get block" isn't as big as "Yay, I got to funnel my spps to my BOBs that needed it to get block."
I like the fact that it accelerates team building in an organic way. I'm sure that GW wanted to have that as an outcome. It's much harder for most people to play 20 games in person than on Fumbbl so some acceleration is welcome.
There was one more thing that I think was a factor, especially after hearing some interviews from the GW guys. They wanted to focus on how awesome the models are. I think they wanted to foster some attachment to some of the physical models. It's the rationale they gave for reducing some of the negatives of aging. If you've spent all this time painting a specific model, maybe you want to funnel some SPPs to it. Get that gobo you custom built some skills or something, even if it's not the most strategic move. |
_________________
Previously intelligent. |
|
hissa-lives
Joined: Aug 21, 2013
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 14:54 |
|
We use this system in our tabletop league, it is only 7 games long and most people so far have swapped teams every season.
In a long league or in B or R here I can see it could cause issues of certain players becoming even tougher as they will hog the mvp's. |
|
|
Loew
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
|
| Posted:
Nov 30, 2016 - 15:32 |
|
I wonder if this will not only change the team building aspect, but also the way coaches play.
I think for some teams it might. I often play Lizards and I always look for ways to make the TDs with the saurus...that incentive is a lot less strong with this rule. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Claw/MB
Search
