Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Mar 18, 2008 - 13:51 |
 
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I thought you guys were fine, but then again, I am not tender. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:04 |
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I'm fairly pro-ogre personally. They are a ridiculously tough team to coach, let alone take right to the top. I'm currently not interested in coaching them in WIL myself but I think that anyone brave enough should be given the chance. I certainly dont see ogres as being a serious damage team in the same way as something like khemri or chaos dwarves.
In regards to expansion, I'd prefer that an extra tier be added at conference (the middle level?) rather than regional level. One of the current disincentives of WIL is the difficulty you have getting your team started. I like a challenge and I've been pretty lucky on the whole but it does feel a bit uphill sometimes. Promoting more of the TR150 teams to the conferences (or having less drop out) might not be a bad thing, especially if we start allowing (omg) ogres  |
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spiggle
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:09 |
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i fear i may have to take a shower after this but i wholeheartedly agree with all that Sillysod says, he is talking sense.
yes to ogres, yes to the extra division in the middle tier.
Is there a possability of eventually going 4 tiers.
premiership, championship, div 1&2, conf 1,2,3,4 |
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Borgen
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:14 |
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Ogres are fine. They make an interesting team for a league scenario as they could pose problems for certain teams (bashers in particular) if they arent boneheading all over the place, but would be very difficult to win out during an entire season. Anyone who is willing to give them a try in the league setting has my blessing. Plus we can't look like a soft league!!
On expansion, I think last time this was done it was done a bit too quickly and too many "weak" teams were promoted from regionals to the conferences. Im in favor of expanding the league if we have a solid group of additional coaches that want to enter. But I think the first season of expansion should be at the regional level. Its only natural to take place there, given there would be many new teams entering the league. Then after a build-up season there would be a stronger band of teams to compete at the 150-200 level, and perhaps the league could invert from 1:3:4 to 1:4:3.
The promotion/relegation between conferences and premier would be unaffected.
Demote 3 teams from each of the 3 conferences. Promote 2 teams from each of the 4 regionals. Promote one wildcard from the regionals based on the highest point total of the four third place teams. (Alternatively, if we invert to 1:4:3 at season end, demote 2 teams from each of the 3 conferences and promote 3 teams from each of the 4 regionals with 2 wildcards based on highest 4th place score). |
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Wotfudboy
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:15 |
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I've not commented on Ogres in WIL before... and I've not seen the previous arguments for and against Ogres. If this makes my opinion simply impartial, or simply ill informed then so be it!
Anyway, my experience of seeing Ogre teams managed leads me to believe that it takes time and a lot of luck to get an Ogre team up to a point where it is effective, and stands a strong chance of winning. Bearing in mind that if Ogre teams were allowed into WIL they would be TR100 to start off with, I think an Ogre team has more chance of getting whopped early on and not recovering than the odds of it making it past TR200+. They will spend most of their cash replacing goblins and trying to get rerolls to counter failed Boneheads and ball pickups.
Personally, I can't see any reason for them not to be allowed. Sure they can become powerful... but a Dauntless here and a DP there and they are just as squishy as any other player. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:16 |
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Never say never on anything Spiggle, but I like the fact that currently a coach can (theoretically) join the league and be at the Prem in 6 months / 2 seasons, that feels a good system to me. I'm not saying no, I'm just thinking out loud.
Any kind of expansion brings issues. For instance, a fourth Conference brings the issue of how hard it is to reach the Prem. Would we go just the 4 winning teams to go up, 4 down from the Prem with no playoffs? This makes getting to the top (and indeed staying there) increasingly tough, and may stagnate a load of good teams / coaches at TR200. Again, I'm not forwarding an opinion / decision here, but growth will inevitably squeeze teams somewhere. Worth thinking about. |
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Borgen
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:21 |
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If the league gets bigger you can always go to a 10-team prem but keep the conferences and regionals at 8 teams. Wouldnt recommend this right now, but if our league looked something like 1-4-4 or 1-4-5, i think a 10-team prem would be nice. You could make the prem deadlines slightly shorter to ensure they don't hold up the rest of the league.
| Purplegoo wrote: | Never say never on anything Spiggle, but I like the fact that currently a coach can (theoretically) join the league and be at the Prem in 6 months / 2 seasons, that feels a good system to me. I'm not saying no, I'm just thinking out loud.
Any kind of expansion brings issues. For instance, a fourth Conference brings the issue of how hard it is to reach the Prem. Would we go just the 4 winning teams to go up, 4 down from the Prem with no playoffs? This makes getting to the top (and indeed staying there) increasingly tough, and may stagnate a load of good teams / coaches at TR200. Again, I'm not forwarding an opinion / decision here, but growth will inevitably squeeze teams somewhere. Worth thinking about. |
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PhrollikK
Joined: Nov 04, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:22 |
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Yes on Ogres. They are imo a weakish team and would find leagues a hard struggle, esp. if it comes to chopping TR when relegated. They aren't harder than say Khemri or Dorfs so let them have a go atleast!
As to adding a tier, no. If it takes too much time to advance to the top then it will deter the teams that aren't the goal-scoring type teams (ie. elfs). If more teams are let in then let it be in the form of extra divisions. Add a couple more teams to the premiership if need be. They are the premier and could be expected to play the extra few games maybe? 
Oh and will there be a FA cup before season 9? |
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JockMcRowdy
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:25 |
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I have no problem with Ogres, wouldn't want to use them myself though so am neither for or against, but if others want to use them, sure, why not.
League wise i think we could perhaps have a fourth tier, as the 8 teams to a division works well, but gaining promotion is becoming a bit too hard and relegation all too easy. Not too sure as ive not worked my way up but I would think it makes it very difficult to;
gain promotion, consolidate, attempt promotion, as you will likely get relegated in your consolidating/building season. Or I am possibly completely wrong
Necroooooo! (back to the prem, hazzah!!) |
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Xenon
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:27 |
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Well in PBI we allow Ogres. They haven't caused much of a problem, although I'm not saying there haven't been a few of use who haven't had some painful matches, but they haven't really threatened for the title yet and they haven't been that competitive over the season. I say allow them in WIL too.
In terms of expansion I always say the more the merrier so bring it on in anyway that you see fit. Especially if we can get some more soft and squishy teams for the stunts to play!  |
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Borgen
Joined: Sep 06, 2005
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Mar 18, 2008 - 14:30 |
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The stunts are looking pretty squishy themselves lately. I hope Panda isnt too mean to your 9-team dwarves or you may have some trouble next season |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Mar 18, 2008 - 15:08 |
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Re: a fourth tier - do we want to be in the position of telling new coaches that it will take them at least a year of real time before their team stands any chance of competing for the big prize?
Sure, some teams stumble while trying to climb the divisions, but others do succeed. Look at how quickly and successfully Borgen and Sera's teams (both with fewer than 30 games played, both currently in the top half of the Prem) have risen.
Comparing the current Premier division line-up to the one for my last season there (V), there are only two teams in both lists: Panda's elves (who have yo-yoed - and won the title - since) and Brit's Dominus Astrum (who are walking the tightrope this season with one game to go, the only Premier ever-presents left). So I'm not concerned at this point by any idea that not enough new blood is getting to the top.
Add to that the fact that we have had rosters competing strongly in the Premier division that I would seriously have doubted at the start could ever do so - Pro Elves, Rotters, Norse - and I'd argue things look quite healthy. Not to mention that (thanks no doubt to our evil, anti-social fouling habits) no team looks like running away and becoming uber in TR despite an uncapped top division. |
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Chewie
Joined: Dec 13, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 15:12 |
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Instead of asking for reasons why we should let Ogres in, i decided to try and think of reasons not to let them in. I couldn't think of one. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 16:37 |
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| PhrollikK wrote: | | Oh and will there be a FA cup before season 9? |
Afraid not. We have a cup every Christmas, and <i>almost</i> had one last summer, because we were ahead of our yearly schedule, found on the rules page. We spent so long thinking about it that we fell behind though, so it never happened!
If Season 9 zips through at what is now known as 'Dragon Pace', we could have one in the summer. It's very much a filler if we go quickly more than a fixture for your calendar though, so hassle those coaches along! |
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Wilf
Joined: Jan 15, 2006
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Mar 18, 2008 - 16:48 |
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This is only my first season in the WIL, but I don't think there's a problem with including ogres. As people have said, there are plenty of other more destructive teams already there and my dark elves can't even cope with wood elves, so ogres won't be much of an extra burden.
Can't really comment on the league expanding as haven't been here long enough. But I'd echo 'the more the merrier' - I might even beat one of the new people! |
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