Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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 Posted:
Nov 23, 2004 - 18:03 |
 
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Having recently made my first Vampire team, i got a bit confused about the wording of Blood Lust in the rules review. Please forgive the long quote. From the Rules Review :
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Blood Lust: The Vampire loses their declared action for the turn and must
instead take a Move action. If the Vampire finishes the move standing adjacent to one or more standing, prone, or stunned Thralls, he attacks one of them. Immediately roll for injury on the Thrall who has been attacked without making an Armour roll. The injury will not cause a turnover unless the Thrall was holding the ball. If the Vampire is not able to attack a Thrall (for any reason), then he is removed from the field and placed in his team's Reserves box, and his team suffers a Turnover. If he was holding the ball it bounces from the square he occupied when he was removed, and he may not score a Touchdown (even if he
gets into the End Zone while holding the ball before being removed).
If the Vampire is Knocked Out or Injured before biting a Thrall, then he should be placed in the appropriate box of the Dug Out instead of being placed in the Reserves box. Note that the Vampire is allowed to pick up the football or do anything else they could normally do while taking a Move action, but must bite a Thrall to avoid the Turnover.
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So...only a move action when the Blood Lust roll fails. Fair enough. my question is this : Supposing we´ve got a Vamp with the ball in scoring position. Before moving him into the ez we move a thrall next to the ez-square that Vamp is going to occupy. Then we select the vamp, select move, woops, Bloodlust roll (1) fails, no more rerolls. So we move him into the ez, scoring a td (?) and subsequently biting the thrall (?). Or...what?
I´m talking about the client and tabletop. Which is the correct rules interpretation? is it a td? does the thrall become food?
Thanks for the help |
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Bruno
Joined: Sep 21, 2003
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Nov 23, 2004 - 18:08 |
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Yes, ive wondered about that as well. And also the case where a vampire that has failed its OFAB roll passes the ball to someone in the End Zone. |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Nov 23, 2004 - 18:11 |
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Well...since the wampire can´t take a pass action when bloodlusting that doesn´t puzzle me as much. But i get your idea  |
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LurkingGrue
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2004 - 18:17 |
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The LRB says: "A team scores a touchdown when one of their players is
standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding
the football at the end of any player's action."
The interpretation I've seen applying this to OFAB vamps is that the vampire's action doesn't end until he either bites the Thrall or fails to get into a position to do so. So, in your example, the Vampire would enter the endzone, bite the Thrall and then score the TD. If there were no available Thrall, the Vamp would be ejected and the ball scattered from where ever he was.
I have no idea how the client handles this.
The Vamp who fails OFAB, at least under the rules review rules, can only make a move action so he couldn't pass the ball. |
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Last edited by LurkingGrue on %b %23, %2004 - %18:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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Nov 23, 2004 - 18:22 |
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I think the client takes it as a TD, but I think the rules state that it shouldn't be one. Not sure how we should take this in game. |
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Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with something bigger and heavier. |
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nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
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Nov 23, 2004 - 18:40 |
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Well if the rules is you cant you shouldnt  the game is bloodbowl , the client is a tool to play bloodbowl |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 23, 2004 - 18:45 |
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| LtMonkey wrote: | | I think the client takes it as a TD, but I think the rules state that it shouldn't be one. Not sure how we should take this in game. |
I think he's right and if you fail your OFAB and then go and score to avoid munching one of your thralls, then you are breaking league rules (order of precedence and all) and cheating.
Cheater, cheater, cheater!
Seriously, you can technically get banned for that. Additionally, it's just poor sportsmanship to exploit bugs like that. |
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Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Korso
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2004 - 18:54 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | LtMonkey wrote: | | I think the client takes it as a TD, but I think the rules state that it shouldn't be one. Not sure how we should take this in game. |
I think he's right and if you fail your OFAB and then go and score to avoid munching one of your thralls, then you are breaking league rules (order of precedence and all) and cheating.
Cheater, cheater, cheater!
Seriously, you can technically get banned for that. Additionally, it's just poor sportsmanship to exploit bugs like that. |
Let's pretend I never read this post, okay? |
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Cortelll
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2004 - 19:00 |
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rule #1
If you are in the TD zone and bite a thrall you are good, it's a TD
rule #2
If you are in the TD zone and do not big a thrall, ball scatters
Rule #3
If a player breaks this rule the game replay should inmidiately be reported Note: some people might actually not know about this rule
Unofficial rule #4
If you are a good vampire coach you must join my VAMPIRE CLUB
link is under my signature, |
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Cortelll
Bloodbowl World Cup
Vamps Group |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Nov 23, 2004 - 20:25 |
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BadMrMojo wrote :| Quote: | | I think he's right and if you fail your OFAB and then go and score to avoid munching one of your thralls, then you are breaking league rules (order of precedence and all) and cheating. |
In my example above the Vamp actually has a thrall to bite when ending his turn in the ez. The way i see it is : move, bite thrall, roll injury, end turn, td (?).
Of course if he´s not allowed to score TD´s during Bloodlust (this being the major rule which is applied before the rule of TD) then he was supposed to move next to a thrall (just outside of the ez maybe?) bite the poor thing and then end his turn.
I´m still not quite sure if my example in my first post would be a td.
M |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 23, 2004 - 21:15 |
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Right. In this case, something enforced by the client (ie: TD as soon as you enter the endzone) overrides the LRB because... well... it has to.
In this case, you're getting out of that injury roll for free. Yay, you.
Here's the tricky part: going into the endzone and scoring a touchdown when there's no thrall in sight is cheating. Entering the endzone when there is a thrall in biting range but the client doesn't resolve the bit is not cheating.
Again, this isn't an official stance or anything. Someone is more than welcome to come in and tell me I'm wrong. It's just my opinion. I, personally, wouldn't go to the endzone and score the TZ unless there was a thrall standing next to the endzone that I could have (if the client would have let me) bitten. I believe it would be cheating, since it is a violation of the LRB that you could choose to avoid.
Not biting the thrall after the score is ok, because JBB doesn't give you the option of resolving that and that takes us back to the order of precedence on the rules page.
Sorry to be anal. Just the principle of the thing.
{ edit: for tabletop play, your description of the order was exactly correct, I think. It's just for JBB that "score TD" comes a bit early and ends the turn. } |
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Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Cortelll
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2004 - 21:21 |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 24, 2004 - 15:16 |
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| LurkingGrue wrote: | The LRB says: "A team scores a touchdown when one of their players is
standing in the opposing team’s End Zone while holding
the football at the end of any player's action."
The interpretation I've seen applying this to OFAB vamps is that the vampire's action doesn't end until he either bites the Thrall or fails to get into a position to do so. So, in your example, the Vampire would enter the endzone, bite the Thrall and then score the TD. If there were no available Thrall, the Vamp would be ejected and the ball scattered from where ever he was.
The Vamp who fails OFAB, at least under the rules review rules, can only make a move action so he couldn't pass the ball. |
Just wanted to confirm here that LurkingGrue nailed the correct answer above to this question 100% ... not even going to bother to expand on what he said ... he covered it all in my opinion. So hopefully my confirmation of this should answer the rules question part.
As for how Ski's program handles it ... well that's another fish to fry.
Galak |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 15:32 |
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I in fact payed a game where the ball carrier Vampire failed the OFAB roll and just strolled into the endzone with the ball for a TD. I think this must be because the client does not really end the turn of a player that scores a TD, rather ends the drive and goes to the next set up.
If this is a rules violation, then it should be reported in the bugs section as such.
I'll just go check that then instead of blabbering on here |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 16:36 |
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One thing I'd recommend, Cloggy, is simply sending off a PM to that coach to make sure that he or she knows that it was a generally crappy thing to do. Not an attack or anything, just a polite note to point out that you believe what he did was wrong (assuming that's the case. Without having checked any replays or anything, I'm inclined to agree with that assessment, personally). Feel free to include links to this thread, the Rules Review and the rules page.
The most important part of that last one is the following section:
| Quote: | | Abusing obvious bugs for your own benefit is not allowed. This does not cover rule interpretation issues which are listed in the appropriate text file in the JavaBBowl distribution. |
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