24 coaches online • Server time: 06:31
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Double skill roll on...goto Post Witch legend roll - ...goto Post 4th Skill on a Sauru...
 
FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Poll
Would you like this new rule?
Yes, it's worth a try
7%
 7%  [ 32 ]
No, but i would like some other way to prevent elfbowling
6%
 6%  [ 28 ]
I don't like elfbowling, but i don't think we can do anything about it
18%
 18%  [ 79 ]
Elbowling is fine
66%
 66%  [ 280 ]
Total Votes : 419


Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 06:52 Reply with quote Back to top

First, for those who don't see what wrong with elfbowling (live and let live, they say), here it is. A team that elfbowls gets fewer casualties than they normally would. This lets them develop the team to a point where they normally wouldn't be able to. When such a team enters a tournament, it then has an unfair advantage over the other teams. That's what's wrong with elfbowling.

So, i propose a new rule that would prevent teams from elfbowling. There's currently a rule that teams can't play if the TS (team strength) difference is more than 40; it just won't upload. There's also a rule (though less strict) about not playing against the same coach more than 1 out of 10 games.

A similar rule could be added, saying that no team can play more than 50% (or any other number that seems fitting) of their games against elves, past the first 5 games (a minimum of games is necessary, otherwise it makes it impossible to play your first game against elves).

It could be made into a hard, set in stone rule that would prevent games from uploading. Or it could be a softer rule like the 1 in 10 rule.

Either way, it would force people to play against different races. It would also make majors a more balanced battleground, where the elves look like they're supposed to look, i.e. all banged up! It might even help teams other than elves win some majors!

What do you think?

By the way, i play wood elves. I'm trying to get them to the Fumbbl Cup, the way it should be, playing against all sorts of races. I can't make enough money fast enough to replace players, but that's how it should be! Wood elves were designed to be great but easily breakable. That's how the team was balanced. Don't take the balance away!



EDIT : Pirog made a great suggestion below. Rather than apply this rule to all of ranked, only teams that want to apply for a major could be forced to comply with it in order for their registration to be accepted. This way, we have the best of both worlds, and people who play for fun can elfbowl all they want, while comptetitive players entering majors can have a fair arena to play in. Feel free to consider this suggestion when you vote. This would go under the second option, i.e. another way to prevent elfbowling.


Last edited by Zombie69 on Sep 20, 2007 - 08:32; edited 1 time in total
Synn



Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Location: Here but far gone in a metaphysical way....

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 06:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Image

__Synn
shadow46x2



Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:15
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

oh god, i thought we got rid of you, bigmac

Image

--j

_________________
origami wrote:
There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet.

ImageImage
Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Guys, it's a mod who suggested i make this thread. So let it be and let's see what OTHERS have to say.
Surtur



Joined: Jan 09, 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Think these are the words of a bit too competitive player imho. Just making my way back to the arenas, but sounds a bit like it.

Freedom of playing the game people want is one thing and loosing to some elf teams and writing this = lose

_________________
-cK
shadow46x2



Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:35
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Zombie69 wrote:
Guys, it's a mod who suggested i make this thread. So let it be and let's see what OTHERS have to say.


interesting, seeing as how the owner of the site has stated on multiple occasions that he will never put in place mechanics that will restrict coaches abilities to play whomever they want...i highly doubt a "mod" suggested you make this thread....

unless said mod wants to take credit Razz

--j

ps....

Surtur wrote:
Freedom of playing the game people want is one thing and loosing to some elf teams and writing this = lose


HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH that's classic...surtur will you bear my lovechild?

_________________
origami wrote:
There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet.

ImageImage
Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Note : i did not write this because i lost to some elf team. I wrote this because i and others will (future tense important) lose to elbowling elf teams in the majors because they had an unfair advantage.

You're right about the competitive bit though. The proposed rule is all about balance, and balance is all about fair competition. I've always felt that balance is the most important ingredient for a good game, because i'm a competitive guy by nature! For example, i think Starcraft is the best computer game ever because Blizzard has spent 10 years working on the balance to make sure it's perfect.

But let's not make this be another Blizzard vs Games Workshop thread or anything like that. Back to the topic at hand. And thanks for your input Surtur.
Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:44 Reply with quote Back to top

shadow46x2 wrote:
unless said mod wants to take credit Razz


He will take credit if he wants to, but i won't name names. In the meantime, you'll have to take my word for it. Anyway, the reason for this thread is not important. What's important is the proposed rule change.

So again, i politely ask you to step out and let's hear what OTHER people have to say.
shadow46x2



Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:45
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

Zombie69 wrote:
Note : i did not write this because i lost to some elf team. I wrote this because i and others will (future tense important) lose to elbowling elf teams in the majors because they had an unfair advantage.

You're right about the competitive bit though. The proposed rule is all about balance, and balance is all about fair competition. I've always felt that balance is the most important ingredient for a good game, because i'm a competitive guy by nature! For example, i think Starcraft is the best computer game ever because Blizzard has spent 10 years working on the balance to make sure it's perfect.

But let's not make this be another Blizzard vs Games Workshop thread or anything like that. Back to the topic at hand. And thanks for your input Surtur.


yeah you're right, this had nothing to do with you getting trounced by woodies and you being bitter about it(notice the t16 foul also?)

oh...and you're right about starcraft being 100% balanced.....because the hackers and cheaters who play it have no advantage over everyone else at all...my bad

--j

_________________
origami wrote:
There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet.

ImageImage
OldBugman



Joined: May 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Zombie69 wrote:
A team that elfbowls gets fewer casualties than they normally would.


So less casualties should be punished. I say we ban av9
shadow46x2



Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:48
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

bahahahahahaha!!!!

<3 OB

Image

Happy Dance!!!

--j

_________________
origami wrote:
There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet.

ImageImage
Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:59 Reply with quote Back to top

The T16 foul had nothing to do with bitterness and everything to do with balance again. Trying to cause a CAS to a team that will avoid CAS, to restore balance, ever so slightly.

And again, this game had nothing to do with it. I've always hated leagues that allowed elfbowling. Many, many years ago, in OLBBL, i challenged an elfbowling team with my own wood elves and did everything i could to maim them, to do my little part against elfbowling. So this is nothing new.

And like i said, keep sracraft out of it.

For the third time, i ask you to step out of this thread and let other people speak. We already know what you think. Now let's hear what others have to say.
Zombie69



Joined: Jul 02, 2007

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 08:02 Reply with quote Back to top

OldBugman wrote:
Zombie69 wrote:
A team that elfbowls gets fewer casualties than they normally would.


So less casualties should be punished. I say we ban av9


Teams with AV9 were designed with flaws to counter their higher endurance. Usually, they're not as good at handling the ball, and also not as fast. Elves were designed to be good ball handlers, dodgers, etc. but more fragile to compensate. This is how balance was achieved. But when you figure out a way to develop an elf team without risking many casualties, balance has been broken, and i believe it would be a good thing to restore it.
spacebobo



Joined: Oct 16, 2006

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 08:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Zombie69 wrote:
First, for those who don't see what wrong with elfbowling (live and let live, they say), here it is. A team that elfbowls gets fewer casualties than they normally would. This lets them develop the team to a point where they normally wouldn't be able to. When such a team enters a tournament, it then has an unfair advantage over the other teams. That's what's wrong with elfbowling.

So, i propose a new rule that would prevent teams from elfbowling. There's currently a rule that teams can't play if the TS (team strength) difference is more than 40; it just won't upload. There's also a rule (though less strict) about not playing against the same coach more than 1 out of 10 games.

A similar rule could be added, saying that no team can play more than 50% (or any other number that seems fitting) of their games against elves, past the first 5 games (a minimum of games is necessary, otherwise it makes it impossible to play your first game against elves).

It could be made into a hard, set in stone rule that would prevent games from uploading. Or it could be a softer rule like the 1 in 10 rule.

Either way, it would force people to play against different races. It would also make majors a more balanced battleground, where the elves look like they're supposed to look, i.e. all banged up! It might even help teams other than elves win some majors!

What do you think?

By the way, i play wood elves. I'm trying to get them to the Fumbbl Cup, the way it should be, playing against all sorts of races. I can't make enough money fast enough to replace players, but that's how it should be! Wood elves were designed to be great but easily breakable. That's how the team was balanced. Don't take the balance away!


First of all, what exactly are you trying to prevent? A team playing only soft games, or a team playing only elves? In your distorted view of things, the two seem to be the same thing. There are hoards of soft av9 teams that are less threatening than many elf teams. It's not hard at all to cherrypick soft teams that most people play in a bashy style. Thus, your "solution" of putting a cap on the number of elf games one can play, doesn't address the alleged problem at all.

Second, you aren't really convincing me that there is a problem at all. Click the Tournaments button and look at the strongest team in the LC. The one that is about 30 TS and TR higher than everyone else. Does it look like he "elfbowled"? How about one of the strongest teams from the last 2 tournaments? I'm not really sure who you are crying about. It's obviously possible to build powerhouse 300 TR teams while playing all races, as evidence by the above 2 examples. Show me the elfballing team that has an "unfair advantage" over them.

Finally, forcing people to play (or not play) certain races is flawed. Why do you care how other people choose to have fun?
Pirog



Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Location: Straddling my high horse

Post   Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 08:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I wouldn't want to see such restrictions in Ranked, but maybe the major tournaments could have some demands for teams to apply. I don't think they should be anywhere near as strict as 50 % against bashy teams though.

The problem is of course how to balance and control it. To monitor when people cherrypick or not. There will be coaches that find ways to avoid any such limitations by spending several weeks looking for a bashy team in bad need of a recovery and things like that, so I'm not sure that this idea would be practically possible to implement.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits