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c9805222



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 13:18 Reply with quote Back to top

can the thrower complete their move after passing the ball? That would be helpful.
kwèk



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Okay,


I'll add this to my letter I was going to write to GW to add "CPOMB" as 1 general skill. Because I feel you have a point.

Having 1 pass action + 1 hand off action is just to restrictive, and really stops you in your tactics. Having to play around these restrictions stops some great plays from happening. Like some wood elves passing the ball from 1 square of your opponents endzone all the way back to yours and back again for the touchdown... just because you can.

We had this league in one of our local shops, somewhere in the 90s, (true story) where the commissioner decided that 1 blitz a turn was way to restrictive. So every guy on the team could blitz every turn. Most experience players tought it was a bad idea... since it's the most important action in a turn... but the majority (mostly people that hardly play the game and wanted to give it a try) tought it was a great idea. After 2 weeks... people kinda abandoned the league... and most noobs never came back.

The 90s were some weird times...

So already up for letter:

- CPOMB: 1 general skill, just cut the crap of skilling up to 31 SPP
- More passing, 1 pass is way to restrictive

There is still place left on the letter. Just keep bringing the ideas!

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Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Good trolling sir, good troll Smile
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:16 Reply with quote Back to top

It would make Slann catchers better. Lob them up the field in pairs (you can't blitz both), even if they are surrounded, leap out and catch the ball and zoom in for a TD. In fact, anyone with leap. Especially AG5 elves or the like.

That would change the dynamics for offense and defence for sure.

Interesting idea.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 14:32 Reply with quote Back to top

People would pass more if you made a pass auto success.

There it is. Even if a pass only fails 5% of the time, that is still a chance of an unnecessary turnover. If you can run the ball in at no risk, people will try that first.

Even if there is a only 1% chance of failure, that is still bad compared to 0%.

NFL reduces the risk by saying that an incomplete forward pass is NOT a turnover. How many forward passes would we see in the NFL is a forward pass was treated like a lateral?

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kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 15:01 Reply with quote Back to top

The question is a bit silly.. i mean..

Let's ask some other as obvious questions:

Would you pile on more if it was more effective?
Would you pile on less if it was nerfed?
Would you foul more if dirty player gave +2 to injury rolls?
Would you foul less if it was more likely for ref to get fouler caught than before?

Like.. of course people would pass more if it was made easier.

Pass with pass and catch skills would still fail around 1/20, so it won't be plan A (since just running it in might not need other rolls with ball.. ofc you need to blitz and maybe block to secure the ball).

Given buff isn't much so it won't multiply the passing rates.. but if catcher could move during pass-action, it clearly would create more situations where passing is safer than let's say dodging multiple times and making a handover.. or relying blodge to work.

The question is.. if catcher could move during pass-action, could he do dodges? What if catcher fails a dodge, would thrower keep the ball, fumble the ball or would you had to 1st declare where you are passing (point the square) before moving catcher. Meaning, thrower would had to throw the ball, whether catcher was on that square or not (and would safe throw make it so that thrower could keep the ball in cases catcher isn't on target square)?
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

It's hard to tweak the pass mechanics to make it better without making completely overpowered, specially for certain AG races.

As for the mechanic suggested in the OP, it is interesting but a bit too complicated for a normal game mechanic, although it could work for Diving Catch as suggested:

Diving Catch:
The player may move up to 3 squares (within its normal movement allowance for the turn) when his team declares a Pass Action and he is not holding the ball. This movement is subject to normal movement conditions (dodge, tentacles...) and will cause a turnover if it fails.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 22:50 Reply with quote Back to top

kwèk wrote:
Okay,


I'll add this to my letter I was going to write to GW to add "CPOMB" as 1 general skill. Because I feel you have a point.

Having 1 pass action + 1 hand off action is just to restrictive, and really stops you in your tactics. Having to play around these restrictions stops some great plays from happening. Like some wood elves passing the ball from 1 square of your opponents endzone all the way back to yours and back again for the touchdown... just because you can.

We had this league in one of our local shops, somewhere in the 90s, (true story) where the commissioner decided that 1 blitz a turn was way to restrictive. So every guy on the team could blitz every turn. Most experience players tought it was a bad idea... since it's the most important action in a turn... but the majority (mostly people that hardly play the game and wanted to give it a try) tought it was a great idea. After 2 weeks... people kinda abandoned the league... and most noobs never came back.

The 90s were some weird times...

So already up for letter:

- CPOMB: 1 general skill, just cut the crap of skilling up to 31 SPP
- More passing, 1 pass is way to restrictive

There is still place left on the letter. Just keep bringing the ideas!


Ive defined this as a house rule for a specific elfball league. I get youre taking the piss but this isnt for everyone and wasnt meant to be.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 23:08 Reply with quote Back to top

kummo wrote:


Given buff isn't much so it won't multiply the passing rates.. but if catcher could move during pass-action, it clearly would create more situations where passing is safer than let's say dodging multiple times and making a handover.. or relying blodge to work.

The question is.. if catcher could move during pass-action, could he do dodges? What if catcher fails a dodge, would thrower keep the ball, fumble the ball or would you had to 1st declare where you are passing (point the square) before moving catcher. Meaning, thrower would had to throw the ball, whether catcher was on that square or not (and would safe throw make it so that thrower could keep the ball in cases catcher isn't on target square)?


Yes.
You would resolve the pass as if it was thrown and the thrower was expecting the catcher to be there. Turnover.
You are correct in declaring the pass to a specific square then resolving the actions taken by the catcher to get there.
I would absolutely make safe throw work in situations liek that.
licker



Joined: Jul 10, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 23:10 Reply with quote Back to top

This is up there in the running for worst idea ever.

Hell it would be crazy fun, but completely imbalanced to whatever balance there currently is.

If you really only intended it for elf only leagues fine, because if this were implemented that's what most leagues would turn into anyway.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 25, 2017 - 23:12 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
People would pass more if you made a pass auto success.

There it is. Even if a pass only fails 5% of the time, that is still a chance of an unnecessary turnover. If you can run the ball in at no risk, people will try that first.

Even if there is a only 1% chance of failure, that is still bad compared to 0%.

NFL reduces the risk by saying that an incomplete forward pass is NOT a turnover. How many forward passes would we see in the NFL is a forward pass was treated like a lateral?


This is a good point. Making rolls is always going to be more risky than not making rolls. Therefore, as long as passing involves some risk, it is never going to be a plan A strategy, compared with running the ball. However, I think there are some good ideas in this thread about how Pass Block and Diving Catch could be improved.

An interesting variant of BB could be one where the player holding the ball can't move (or can only move a very short distance), kind of like netball. I won't be playing Khemri in that one though .. Wink

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