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Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 11:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Been playing for about 1½ years now and, at the last couple of tabletop tournaments I've been to, I've started asking coaches who are doing well for suggestions on areas that 'clicked' for them, to make them better coaches.

I'm sure posting this question on Facebook would just descend into "roll more Pows" and "take Leap", so I've given that a swerve and brought it to the more sensible (!) FUMBBL (haven't had much response over on TFF, so far) forum, instead!

Example: Try no to base too often (my logic: they'll have to block or dodge their way out, risking a turnover. my mistake: my opponent just get free hits).

Essentially, what were (are?!) the <insert arbitrary number of examples> rookie mistakes you made when starting out. Which small tactical awareness switched your game up. What do you see coaches doing that you'd advise them to steer clear of?

I know there will be race-specific hints and tips, but I'm looking to improve as a player in general, rather than with any specific team/s in mind.

Thanks in advance.

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If you see me buying new miniatures, please confiscate my pocket money and alert my mum...
sonrises



Joined: May 02, 2013

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 11:32 Reply with quote Back to top

coach The_sage and others posted some very good tutorial videos in You tube. Have a look at them too.

Check this link:
https://fumbbl.com/p/about?c=the_Sage
Jopotzuki



Joined: Oct 07, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 11:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Positioning and risk management are the top things that will make you a better player. To understand where to put your players at any given moment. It is not always good to go base to base because you get hit. If you are sure the opponent will not get 2d blocks or will have to dodge away to prevent you from doing something, then it is good to go b2b. Sometimes it might even be worth it, if it allows you to score more easily (even taking 2d hits).

Start thinking about what your opponent will do on his next turn or how he can blitz your ballcarrier. That will make you think the game ahead (like in chess) instead of just trying to think currently what is best on your turn.

Risk management! I have learned this the hard way by losing games in tournaments and even in Eurobowl! Always think what can go wrong if I roll these dice. In my previous tournament I lost a game because the ball landed near the LOS on kick-off and I didn't secure it at all with my free players. Instead I started to make 2d blocks with zombies without rerolls and immediately I rolled double skulls. Then the opponent ran his gutter runners around the ball. I would have been a tie otherwise.

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My Flings also disappear when they're blocked... I knew that was a bug!
Loew



Joined: Feb 02, 2005

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 12:01 Reply with quote Back to top

one of the best, if slightly hidden, links on fumbbl: https://fumbbl.com/help:The+Taoch%21+of+Blood+Bowl%3A+A+Condensed+Guide+for+Newbies
neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 12:09 Reply with quote Back to top

read this: https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=24897

the 1000 losses playbook is a great read about general bb tactic
sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 13:15 Reply with quote Back to top

There's all this stuff: https://www.thenaf.net/resources/playbooks/

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Founder of Cakebowl, Wiltshire's BB League @ cakebowl.co.uk
Wreckage



Joined: Aug 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 14:31 Reply with quote Back to top

sann0638 wrote:
There's all this stuff: https://www.thenaf.net/resources/playbooks/


Feel free to link the 1000 losses book directly. I've been wanting long to do some improvements there but other projects keep stopping me. Gotta focus on the GLN now next unfortunatly. Smile
kummo



Joined: Mar 29, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

My list of veryrookie mistakes:
- think about spp too much.. now i know that i don't always need to cas via block, i can just foul or surf to get advantage if not for whole game - at least for that drive
- sticking always caging/hugging cage.. it is not viable to do for 8 turns.. maybe on orcs or such big team BUT screening is better most of the time.. if you cage you have ball carrier + 4 dudes that don't commit much.. now i cage 1-2 important turns near scoring on my "perfect" drive and if possible that cage is screened at least a bit.. opponent has 4-5 players they can hoard that cage with
- thinking that elfscreen works forever.. it works.. for 1 or 2 turns.. so you should use it for 1 or 2 turns (1 is better.. especially if you can do it on turn 8/16).. most teams have ways to get around (or thru) elfscreen
- positioning was weak and straight forward overall.. trying to avoid giving easy chainpushes, screening in a way there isn't +2 or +3 dodge inside my field.. startsetup noting possibility for blitz, not giving "weaker side" to opponent where they can move to and screen safely
- not knowing when to commit to contact and when to avoid.. sure, getting blodgestep next to a player is annoying and might not go down.. marking all opposing players might stop them from moving or risks them getting turnover and easy shot at ball... but then again it might mean you get ko's and cas's.. or even stuns.. and opponent just runs with ball to safe spot.. i think elfs vs lizzies is one best examples when marking is neat vs when to avoid it.. there are turns when you don't want opponent to move at all and then there are turns when you just stay on their way
- not noting that priorities vary.. opponent has ag5 blodgestepper with surehands.. ball is close to LOS-line but not near your players.. usually you start with LOS blocks but how about that ball.. if it lays there, even with 2 tacklezones on it.. there is quite high chance for opponent to blitz 1 tz away and pick with +2.. usually i pick ball last (since it's least probable to work and thus most likely to give turnover).. but if ball is under high threat i belive you should give it bit higher priority.. remembering "safe actions 1st" is neat and all, but like cage-rule -> you should not HUG it

What improved my game was 1000 losses manual, watching sage and some others streamers play and playing against really good coaches here on fumbbl (and spectating good coaches or watching replays).

I always try to think why (that good coach) did what he did, would i have done that and what does that action lead to. I also used to think abput my recent game, go for a walk and try and remember the points when opponent took contol of our game and:
1) how to avoid that in future games
2) can i do the same to my opponents

Sometimes it was just dice.. sometimes it's leaper or hypnogaze that is hard(er) to avoid.. but sometimes it was my own mistake or just gab in experience. But i strongly believe that analyzing your own stuff like that improves your game if you find holes in your plan. (Might also be good if you can find anyone that could do it for you.. like ask "why did you move that guy there" or "why did you do this action before that" and then give hint about how he should had done it.. if i meet a rookie that speaks english on fumbbl i usually ask if they'd like me to analyze our game and send commentary after the match where i'd list thing he did wrong and what he should improve) Razz

1st i focused improving my prioritizing and then for a very long time i focused on improving my positioning. Currently i'm trying to get grab on how to control game on multiple turns (thinking on if i move a guy somewhere in field he can be useful later.. thinking where my guys will be 1-2 turns in future and where opponent is at that time).. since there is the RNG element planning like that isn't viable and nothing is sure.. but having some sort of plan clearly helps winning games (having plans for cases of failure helps even further).

This game is all about risk control so knowing some odds helps a lot too. Makes planning easier when you know how possible certain things are vs some other things. Also knowing risks (in cases of failior) is neat too. So you can compare the odd of success times rewards to odds of failior times risk and choose accordingly.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 16:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Make a League team. PM the Faculty of Academy Instructors asking for some games. You may request that they play a serious team, or that they go soft on you with a stunty or all-lino team (your choice).

Oh, and a few tips, in addition to all of the above comments, which are all good.

* Familiarize yourself with powers of 2 and 3, then get good at multiplying fractions on the fly. (Or, failing that, memorize the odds of common actions.) Proper risk management is bigger than pure probcalc, but probcalc is at the root of it all.

* Imagine every standing player has a sticky bubble around him, one square in every direction. When two players on the same team's bubbles intersect, they form a bigger bubble. This is how TZs work.

* Play around with screening, learn when to use which type of screen. Screens are both your sword and your shield, if done right. There's a way to use good screens to force contact on your terms, and that's the secret to winning the blocking battle.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 16:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
sann0638 wrote:
There's all this stuff: https://www.thenaf.net/resources/playbooks/


Feel free to link the 1000 losses book directly. I've been wanting long to do some improvements there but other projects keep stopping me. Gotta focus on the GLN now next unfortunatly. Smile


Do you mean host it? If so, yep will do, thanks.

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NAF President
Founder of Cakebowl, Wiltshire's BB League @ cakebowl.co.uk
Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 19:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Wreckage wrote:
I've been wanting long to do some improvements there but other projects keep stopping me. Gotta focus on the GLN now next unfortunatly. Smile


I'm reading that at the moment! The first part is a little number heavy for me, but the less statistical stuff is really useful. Haven't got very far with it, yet, but I'm hoping for some examples of offensive/defensive set-up and basic plays.

Nice work with it.

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If you see me buying new miniatures, please confiscate my pocket money and alert my mum...
Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 20:52 Reply with quote Back to top

sann0638 wrote:
There's all this stuff: https://www.thenaf.net/resources/playbooks/


I've worked my way through that lot. The playbooks are great, I'm looking to see if there's anything about defensive and offensive set-ups. I've always set-up the same way, regardless of the race I'm playing and the type of drive I'm on.

_________________
If you see me buying new miniatures, please confiscate my pocket money and alert my mum...
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

I use two basic defensive setups.

Code:
The Boat
- - - -|- - x x x - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - - -|x - - x - - x|- - - -
- - - -|- x x x x x -|- - - -


and

Code:
The Ziggurat
- - - -|- - x x x - -|- - - -
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
- - x -|- x - - - x -|- x - -
- x - -|x - - - - - x|- - x -


The Boat is good for protecting your best players. 5 players can't be hit. The Ziggurat is good for locking the offense out and controlling space. Which one I use depends on my team and who I'm up against.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.


Last edited by JackassRampant on Sep 03, 2017 - 00:26; edited 1 time in total
Jip



Joined: Apr 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 23:21 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
I use two basic defensive setups.

Which one I use depends on my team and who I'm up against.


That's one of the things I'm after, really useful, thank you. Is there a collection of set-ups like this online anywhere?

_________________
If you see me buying new miniatures, please confiscate my pocket money and alert my mum...
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Sep 02, 2017 - 23:32 Reply with quote Back to top

About 10 years ago we fumbled around on talkfantasyfootball about how to name the various setups that people used. Not sure it's worth digging it up, there were some ... unconventional ... defenses proposed on that thread.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
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