83 coaches online • Server time: 21:53
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Gloomy Gus, Legendar...goto Post dodging against oppo...goto Post Slann Blitzer too ex...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Poll
What to do with the Slann Blitzer?
No changes needed, the skill access makes up for the price.
28%
 28%  [ 36 ]
Discount Blitzer Please.
24%
 24%  [ 31 ]
Exchange diving tackle or jump up for block.
10%
 10%  [ 13 ]
Stop Complaining.
36%
 36%  [ 45 ]
Total Votes : 125


RedDevilCG



Joined: Jan 09, 2010

Post   Posted: May 13, 2018 - 18:53 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd be a bit bummed if the Blitzers got Block stock. I like the option of going the Wrestle OR Block route with them. Starting with dodge would be great though.
NickNutria



Joined: Jul 25, 2006

Post   Posted: May 13, 2018 - 21:38 Reply with quote Back to top

I play Slann a lot and I have to say, they are really difficult to play. A developed Slann Blitzer is absolutely worth every cent you'll have to pay. An undeveloped Slann Blitzer is hard to skill and isn't worth its money. But how will you ever get a developed Blitzer without starting with an undeveloped one?

In my opinion not only the slann blitzer, bzt also the slann catcher starts overpriced while the linemen and RR of this team aren't expensive at all. For me they worked best when I started with lots of RRs and Linemen.

With developed linemen and lot's of RRs, I finally started skilling first blitzers and then catchers. The Team finally developed and got stronger. When the positonals finally skilled, I had a really strong team.

Unlike almost any other team I know, it seems that it's better not to start off with too many positionals on this team. In other teams: the more positionals you take the stronger is your starting team. For Slann it is the other way around.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 15, 2018 - 05:15 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
We should try a Green Ball Attackers roster with properly designed Blitzers to make a win rate % comparison with the above Green Ball Attackers.
My theory is that with Wrestle/Block Slann would have a better win rate and I explained that with Wrestle/Block the Slann Blitzers would be protected sooner and more efficient as ball sackers as rookie as well, this is not a "judgment without argument" but it's a logical and well explained argument.
I think that judging a Blitzer (a player that for definition is supposed to blitz and block) by his lack of Block/Wrestle is not a "judgement without argument" but it's based on a clear fact.


Wait, this is all rooted semantic/definition/schema/congruency issue?

This does not surprise me at all.

Lets try an alternative approach where youre not trying to jam Slann into a Human schema and start from there. Instead of trying to find analogs to base your analysis on, consider their utility mesh with the team at various TVs and with anywhere from 1 to 5 skills.

What if they were named Toad Bosses or Slann Safeties?



Semantics IS ultimately the issue. The Slann Blitzer is ultimately NOT a Blitzer. They are some other sort of thing that does not have a better name.

If related to American Football... A Blitzer is a type of Linebacker or Defensive End on Defense and something like a Running Back Tight End on Offense (depending on the roster).

Slann Blitzers are more like Defensive Backs covering (or man-marking as it is called on FUMBBL) dangerous offensive threats of the opponent. They lock down opponents with Diving Tackle and if Blocked down the pursue at full speed to lock down opponents again.

Although they DO also cover some of the Blitzing duties due to their speed over the Linemen and Strength advantage over the Catchers. And with their speed they may sometimes carry the ball like a Running Back.

But they are so much different and so much more than a Blitzer. And ALL of their Linemen are just as capable at Blitzing and are in position ON THE LINE to Leap into the cage to make the most crucial Blitzes on the BALL... while your "Blitzers" bring the Guard and the Diving Tackle to hold the Line and the Jump Up to HIT BACK or pursue the breakaway.

Blitzer doesn't mean the same thing written in Slannese as it does in the Common Tongue.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 15, 2018 - 05:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Exactomundo catalyst. Also nice analogy to american football, for those that follow it, makes sense. Makes me want to make 4x Earl Thomases even though he doesnt play man against the slot, but the concept is similar.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 15, 2018 - 05:37 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
thoralf wrote:
Weresquid wrote:
Is st2 with no dodge a problem? Why/why not?


Leap on a 2+ means it's really hard not to get Dodge after a game or two. Then Leap on a 2+ and Dodge on a 2+ makes him a threat.

Real problem is that he's an SPP hog, which means your blitzers don't get Blodge fast enough.


Bingo, although im curious about Blodge Slann Blitzers when onboarding rookies to a mature team. Like, is Blodge priority still or...something else?

Man, y'all are making me want to dust off the Box Froggies.



I don't think Blodge is worth having on Slann. Use Leap instead. At least that is my operating theory.
The Catchers need Block more than they need Dodge. And with AG4 and Pro their AG rolls will pan out often enough.

Don't take ANY of the Reroll skills. Take Pro instead and MAX OUT its uses.
Pro (when it works) works on Leaps, Jump Up to Block, Dauntless, Dodges, Pick Ups, Passes, Catches, Blocks, Frenzy Blocks, GFIs.
Avoiding Pass, Catch, Sure Feet, etc etc.. and Not having Dodge WASTES ALL OPPONENT TACKLE.

I DO make an exception on 1 Catcher (and might make it on 2 Catchers IF I played them at high enough TV and was using 4 Catchers).
I build 1 Catcher with ALL of the Reroll SKills... Dodge, Sure Hands, Sure Feet... etc etc.

Use your Linemen Doubles for added Mighty Blow and Guard. Use the Krox for Guard.
Use your Mighty Blow Linemen as attrition Blitzers so your Blitzers can develop in other ways.
Use your Blitzer skill slots for Guard and Mighty Blow. I prefer Wrestle on MOST of the Linemen (+50%) AND Block on the Blitzers.

I like Tackle, Fend, Strip Ball and Dirty Player on the Linemen with 3rd or 4th skill often being Pro.
I DO NOT use Pro on the Blitzers but might at Legend if I ever get there.
You want either Side Step or Fend on your Blitzers... both have their advantages.

Basically, you have to RETHINK your builds to optimize Slann... but you also need to avoid OVER THINKING it.
It's just like the LEAP skill. If you use it too much you will throw the game away with over use.
If you use it just right... you'll have a nasty team that is a chore to play.
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: May 15, 2018 - 09:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:


I don't think Blodge is worth having on Slann.


Then, respectfully, you are wrong Very Happy
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 04:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Harad wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:


I don't think Blodge is worth having on Slann.


Then, respectfully, you are wrong Very Happy



There are better options available.
AG3 and Dodge is less effective than AG3 Leap and Very Long Legs in movement and evading your opponent.
AND your Froggies need to be HITTING more than RUNNING AWAY against most opponents.
Your Froggies need to Man-mark like Humans and rely on their AV Block/Wrestle and Fend to protect them.
Man-marking to tie down key opposing players and draw them away from the cage is essential.

Why have a skill that is negated by every type of Dorf team you face and every Blitzer worth a damn your opponent fields?
NO.
You need OTHER SKILLS more. More Guard, more Mighty Blow, more Strip Ball, more Tackle, more Block, more Wrestle, more Pro, more Frenzy, more Side Step, more Juggernaut, more Fend, more Sure Hands, more Dauntless, MORE CREATIVE CHOICES and less reliance on CHEESE.

You won't see why until you give it a try. Put a little thought into it and see to TIE TOGETHER the OTHER SKILLS.

90% of the time you are WASTING a skill slot on Dodge with Slann.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 04:51 Reply with quote Back to top

43% win rate in ranked.

tamam shud.

_________________
Image
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

yep with a HUGE CHUNK of those games in tournaments against the best competition on the site

and tons of those OPEN games playing the inferior team by choice
and tons of those OPEN games posting a team to the game finder and accepting the 1st offer no matter who it is
and tons of those OPEN games forcing myself to play against whatever it is at the time I haven't figured out HOW to beat

If I used Ranked the way MOST coaches do I would win more like 44% of the time... maybe more.
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Dodge on anything with AG4 is just good business sense. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is selling something you shouldn't buy.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 18:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
AG3 and Dodge is less effective than AG3 Leap and Very Long Legs in movement and evading your opponent.


THIS, good SIR, is plain WRONG.

Dodge and Leap are COMPLEMENTARY.

It’s like walking and chewing bubble GUM.

Have you ever chewed bubble gum while WALKING?

FUN TIMES.

Same for Leap and DODGE.

You Leap in the cage, POP the ball, follow up, then DODGE.

You DODGE out of a tackle zone to go get the ball by then leaping.

You LEAP across the LOS then DODGE.

FUN TIMES.

Give it some THOUGHT.

_________________
There is always Sneaky Git.
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 20:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Blodge is the best skill combination in the game, and on ag4 dodge is fantastic, ask any elf or gutter runner. But to make use of all the weird starting skills maybe dont get blodge first.

I like to load up on blitzers, and im pretty happy with that build. Block, sf, guard, dodge, stats yes, dubs no. The linos get the wrestle, tackle, mb etc. Im not so sure about the catchers. I like dodge first, but then ive no idea. Ss? Sure hands? Catch? Pass on doubles? Or just blodge it up? I dont like pro since i like to load up on rerolls. What does the brain trust say?
Jeffro



Joined: Jan 22, 2009

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Spammed Pro has worked on teams... I remember someone saying spammed pro on orcs was great because failed dodges didn't break armour, rerolled blocks were a bonus, and then your whole team was able to do riskier things. So it's not that I think Pro is useless.

But the brain-trust on Slann is happygrue... and he's stated that blitzers are the core of the team. And AG+ on a blitzer is GOLD - no argument accepted. So getting Dodge is by no means wasted. It's only wasted if you never use it. But Pro gets knocked down on a Defender Stumbles result - period, end of story.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 16, 2018 - 21:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Not that dodge is bad, but it is not among the priority skills for slann. It does not make sense to spam it and rely on it. Some coaches say they prefer to either spam dodge, or not taking at all (while some prefers balance).
Now i think it makes sense to have dodge on some 'blitzer' and generally on catchers, but i would not take on linemen. Wrestle, Tackle are priority skills, and on double Guard is the go to option. Having dodge on AG4 is cheese, and totally great. Having a well developed blitzer with blodge, standfirm, guard, tackle is also extemely good, even though one would miss MightyBlow, so dodge is not a must have.

Pro makes perfect sense on Slann linos, as there are turns when they will make leap and block, and chances are pro is useful. Pro would make sense on a blitzer in abstract, doing all sorts of things, but having GAS access, that skill will never be taken. I think the pro is just a lino (and kroxi) skill, not for other slann positions.

_________________
Image
'Best thing on FUMBBL'(Seventyone),
'AWESOME'(Kummo), 'Last league i would leave'(SpecialOne), 'Far far the BEST thing i played online'(Grunth)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 17, 2018 - 13:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

If I used Ranked the way MOST coaches do I would win more like 44% of the time... maybe more.

Play in the Box then, your win rate will be way more meaningful there.
Weresquid wrote:
I like dodge first, but then ive no idea. Ss? Sure hands? Catch? Pass on doubles? Or just blodge it up? I dont like pro since i like to load up on rerolls. What does the brain trust say?

Blodge, Side Step, Sure Hands, then Sure Feet, Sprint or cycle. Double is generally Guard, but I tried Pass too on Catchers.
Diving Tackle is another option.

_________________
Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits