64 coaches online • Server time: 00:08
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post New FUMBBL APIgoto Post Blocking in turn 16goto Post FULGINIUM BOWL 12 - ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Poll
Do you de- / not activate if only 4 player draw
Yes
4%
 4%  [ 3 ]
No
88%
 88%  [ 64 ]
Yes unless desperate to play
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 72


Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 10, 2019 - 12:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Not too good an AI though...

_________________
Image
Cyrus-Havoc



Joined: Sep 15, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 00:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes it's frustrating when you get a big mismatch in TV, but it's more frustrating not getting a game at all. It's just the price you have to pay.

You know what is worse than that?

I'll tell you, being the odd one out of 5 when you activated a range of teams at different TV.

_________________
Not Undead but perhaps the oldest living coach!
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Cyrus-Havoc wrote:
Yes it's frustrating when you get a big mismatch in TV, but it's more frustrating not getting a game at all. It's just the price you have to pay.

I prefer not to find a game than find a TV gap (both as overdog or underdog).
Wasting 1 hour locked in a uphill game (due more to TV gap than to coach's skill) is not what I find entertaining, on the other hand playing a game where I have a massive roster advantage is boring as well.
Anyway, if some people like TV gaps, good for them, there could be an option in the activate page to enable/disable TV gaps.
This way TV gap lovers could have their fun, while coaches interested in close TV pairing would not waste their precious time in matches not interesting for them.
If minmax is a problem (I don't see rampant minmax in the Box at the moment, while it happened often in CRP) but it could be sorted by forbidding to play rosters with 0 rrs (and whatever else is needed to discourage the minmax exploit).
As I said, team cycling seems more common to me than classic minmax in the Box.

_________________
Please upvote the Diving Catch bug report, thanks!
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 15:31 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
I prefer not to find a game than find a TV gap (both as overdog or underdog).
Wasting 1 hour locked in a uphill game (due more to TV gap than to coach's skill) is not what I find entertaining, on the other hand playing a game where I have a massive roster advantage is boring as well.
Anyway, if some people like TV gaps, good for them, there could be an option in the activate page to enable/disable TV gaps.
This way TV gap lovers could have their fun, while coaches interested in close TV pairing would not waste their precious time in matches not interesting for them.
If minmax is a problem (I don't see rampant minmax in the Box at the moment, while it happened often in CRP) but it could be sorted by forbidding to play rosters with 0 rrs (and whatever else is needed to discourage the minmax exploit).
As I said, team cycling seems more common to me than classic minmax in the Box.


you just perfectly described Ranked division. Welcome home, prodigal son.

_________________
Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 15:37 Reply with quote Back to top

The problem of Ranked is you have to pick/get picked and you can't play if your offers keep to get refused, not my cup of tea.

_________________
Please upvote the Diving Catch bug report, thanks!
Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

So other people having a different interpretation to you of what is fair is not ok but if you think a match up is unfair it should not happen. That seems fine ..

_________________
Image
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 17:57 Reply with quote Back to top

It's self-evident that huge TV gaps are not fair (especially because not all the inducements are available). The overdog team tends to win more often.

_________________
Please upvote the Diving Catch bug report, thanks!
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 18:04 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
It's self-evident that huge TV gaps are not fair (especially because not all the inducements are available).


Not fair based on outcome or not fair based on preconceived notions of what makes a 'fair game'?

We have statistical evidence that huge TV gaps are not 'unfair' based on outcome because the winning % of the underdog isn't actually that disparate from close TV pairings.

If you don't presuppose unfairness in huge TV gaps, what tangible evidence would support the notion that huge TV gaps are inherently unfair? You're speaking from your heart here.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 18:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Inducements are on purpose more expensive than roster skills, players' stats etc. so, unless the overdog is super bloaty, the overdog team has a clear advantage by design, and anyway, all inducements must be available (if I play as Elves Horatio is great, for example, currently I can't hire him). If you can't hire all the inducements you are supposed to have then a TV gap match is already unfair, because your options are narrowed down.
If the overdog coach is not good and the underdog coach is better then the win rate may be close, but assuming same coaches' skill the overdog team starts with an advantage and that is not fair.
TV-matched division should be all about close TV pairings.
Otherwise, if the general opinion about TV gaps is they are not an issue, then let's stop using TV at all to schedule games, and let's see what happens and how much the people will be happy with more frequent big TV gaps.

_________________
Please upvote the Diving Catch bug report, thanks!
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 19:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Thought so, just gut feels guiding you here.

Also, why are you so quick to ride a slippery slope?

It does not follow that because TV Gaps are mostly inconsequential for fairness of outcome, TV pairing is a useless way to make games. Prima Facie Fallacious. It's actually a superb way to make games when doing a comparison of all ways to make games. If the imperative is to make games and reinforce some predictability in experience, creating matches with the least chance of inducements based on TV is a good way to do it, fair or not.

It's almost nihilistic how you approach these things "Well if this doesn't matter, nothing matters, and it's anarchy, and we'll see how much you like anarchy". Like, give Christer some credit here, he's considered tackling the issue from different approaches and found this to be the best fit. Best fits are pragmatic, not ideal. And therein lies why you'll never find satisfaction. You are committed to ideals over pragmatism because you're an end user of the product, not someone who has a different set of incentives to fulfill as a game arranger and facilitator.

Take this to heart Matt - your idealism gets in the way of useful contributions to the community. You might be well served by pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and engage in a league and then running a league. You will likely see how far your idealism gets you, and my bet is that it's not very far at all.
Mattius



Joined: Sep 03, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 19:38 Reply with quote Back to top

This thread is pure comedy.
BattleLore



Joined: Oct 11, 2007

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 20:13 Reply with quote Back to top

Hmm Matt, what I really don't get is, why you haven't got at least one team with a TV of 2600 or more. You play thousends of games, yet you seem to have so much bad luck, that your players die at about TV 1800... If this stops one day, you suddenly won't have to play up so much Wink
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

HAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAaAHAAAaaaaaaaaahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

smallman whinging about unfairs.

GTFO. Close the door on the way.

_________________
Coach Chainsaw's Dugout
Free Gamer - blog - community
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 23:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Tell you what's unfair - I minmaxed my goblins down to 820 TV (with help from HandyKaufman and his magical saw) and then couldn't get scheduled at all. The rest of you should have sacked your players and come down to my level.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 13, 2019 - 23:33 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
Tell you what's unfair - I minmaxed my goblins down to 820 TV (with help from HandyKaufman and his magical saw) and then couldn't get scheduled at all. The rest of you should have sacked your players and come down to my level.


I have a no reroll all lino Slann team...they could go out with you.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic