25 coaches online • Server time: 07:40
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Southern Wastes Leag...goto Post [SL]UMBBL Cup Vgoto Post Amazons should also ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 05:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Ive been fiddling with a wh40k ruleset for a while: https://fumbbl.com/p/ruleset?id=769

Ive been making teams for many different 40k factions. They’re supposed to be balanced like regular blood bowl teams, with the same ideas for what stats, skills and prices are acceptable for starting teams. I am, however, ok with breaking established precedence for team designs, within reason. Most teams are works in progress, and I’d love some feedback on the individual rosters.

Yes, I know most of these players stats do not represent the incredible killing power they’re supposed to have in the fluff and the books, but their stats in the wargame doesn’t do that either. I’ve tried instead to make the stats roughly represent each piece in the tabletop game, with alterations for balance and team concept.

Most teams are based around the armys most central pieces, with rare and elite figures as star players. The star players are far from done, most are just ideas.

The idea is to build a robust enough selection of teams to have an open division going, and start a scheduled league after a while if I find any takers. No CRP or SL teams will be included, all teams will be 40k.

I have a buttload of icons made, but need more. Ill upload them to the ruleset as soon as i can, and I’d be jumping with joy if anyone else would draw some as well.

Any interest?
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 05:19 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not sure. I can see what you've done.. but one of the big things about 40k is that you have very small armies of things like space marines, and then very large armies of things like imp guard. In a game designed around 11 players on both sides that theme is VERY hard to maintain.

And while you've made some good stabs at it, I'm not sure I can agree with the idea that space marines simply wouldn't field 11 space marines. That's what they do. (Obviously 11 S4 with no negatraits just doesn't work for balance, but.. space marines don't work with things like serfs. Not in stereotypical 40k anyway).

Without that, I'm not sure even worrying about the rest is feasible.


TLDR: Interested, but caught up in my own views enough that I probably couldn't do it.
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 05:40 Reply with quote Back to top

The reasoning is the same as why you might field 30 marines against 80 igs and a few tanks. There are virtually unlimited numbers of imperial guards and very few space marines around. Same goes for any roster, things with high stats (and costing a lot of points in 40k) are rare and are probably 0-2 or 0-4 positionals with some support staff, slaves or menials as linemen.

As for the serfs, I read the Horus Heresy books where the space marines have serfs around to polish their armor and oil their magnificent pecs, I see no reason why they wouldn’t use them for other purposes if need be.
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 11:31 Reply with quote Back to top

I mean, one thing I immediately notice is you have fast GA Dodge players on ST-based teams. Like, Undead and Necro do that, with only 4x GS players, and only 2x slow ST 4+, and they are both extremely good teams despite the 4328 linemen. You're using 6338 or 6337 block linos with that, it's just going to dominate regular BB teams after a few games.

In general, probably your units are over-designed, too many skills and stuff where you've tried to differentiate a bunch of squads that are essentially all just your Chaos + Agile variants. You could probably cut most of them back to being a single Space Marines team, rather than every chapter house being there.

It's like, there's five different kinds of Vampires, and in Bloodbowl they're all 6448 HG, BL, Regen, because it's close enough. In SL they made variants and just little changes drive them from being one of the worst squads in the game to being better than Lizards and Woodies.

It's a subtle thing, team design, and the variation you've put in probably includes extremely bad teams, and extremely good ones. Like you find in SL.

_________________
ImageImage
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 19:33 Reply with quote Back to top

So, I've been thinking about this too much.

I think 40k is generally a world of higher power than WH. So I'd make the baseline team either have both agi and strong 4 positionals, or STR 5 positional, or agi 5.

Go crazy with it.

Marines would be 0-4 6449 animosity with GAS access, serfs become 0-16 5326 with A access.
Scouts are 0-2 6348 Dodge, Animosity.

Using this as a baseline, do things like giving eldar 4 aspect warriors with 7348 Dodge, sidestep, and an 8358 exarch with various skills.

Imp guard despite being 6337 get 4 ogryns (about same as ogre team ogres ie no longer).

In general, just play a game where everyone starts with the equivalent of several stat upgrades over the standard teams.
asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 21:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Except you cannot start with AG5. AG7 doesn't exist in the game.

_________________
I swear, if someone gave some of you guys lemons, you'd squirt it in your eye and complain about it not being the grapefruit you'd prefer instead of fetching a cup of sugar and some water and ice cubes. -Mrt1212
asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 21:10 Reply with quote Back to top

And also your Blood Angels roster is so impossibly bad that they're somehow worse than traditional vampires because they don't have AG4 and hypno gaze is such a huge part of vampire play.

_________________
I swear, if someone gave some of you guys lemons, you'd squirt it in your eye and complain about it not being the grapefruit you'd prefer instead of fetching a cup of sugar and some water and ice cubes. -Mrt1212
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 21:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Tussock: Im aware there is probably too much variation, I should cut a number of teams but Im not sure exactly which at the moment. And as I said they're a work in progress, the ruleset will obviously need a ton of tweaking before being any good.

Also, no SM team has av8 linemen AND agility skill players. Still, it might be a good idea to nerf them a bit overall.

Nelphine: Thats a fun idea, but Im sceptical of completely abandoning the existing baseline as that'd be and entirely new meta that would have to be balanced from scratch.

Aste: As I said work in progress. The blood angels probably need something else but theyre not supposed to be vampires.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Wait, there are SL rosters with agi 5. Soo... I'd still go that route. However, I'll step aside and cheer for you even if I can't subscribe to your particular vision.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 23:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Firstly I think you need to answer (to yourself) 1 question.

"Do you want them to fit in with official rosters?"

I.e. do you have a vision of them competing against SL or BB2016 teams?

If not...then I suggest not making them to the current template and roster design rules. Go crazy, add new stuff. Official rosters (and SL to a point) have a conservative design aspect.

If we were starting fresh with roster design; with what we know now we'd make them very differently and more exciting. This is an opportunity. You could add all sorts of roster and design rules.
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 23:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Thats an interesting perspective. Any particular wisdom you could share regarding rebalancing the game when starting from scratch? I could think of a few things myself, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2019 - 23:38 Reply with quote Back to top

And to be clear, no, the idea is not to include these teams in the same meta as any other existing teams.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2019 - 01:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Well in that case totally think out of the box. Warriors of 40k are superior to WH world warriors; especially Space Marines. So going high on stats and skills would be good.

What about exo style armour upgrades? Positionals don't have to be on BB spec level. Bikes? Gun placements? Weird boyz and stuff?

Try not to get caught up with the BB way of thinking. The more original the better.
Netherin5



Joined: Oct 05, 2019

Post   Posted: Oct 08, 2019 - 23:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Bombardier-esque bolter weirdness seems fun.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Oct 10, 2019 - 11:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I'd like to try blanket Bombardier with a vehicle or spaceship style version.
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic