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Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 19:51 Reply with quote Back to top

(as a note, I don't think you can simply increase the price of the blockers and nothing else in the game changes. thats why i provided my link earlier - you need to make changes to ALL the teams if you want to make any noticeable change to any team.)
ArthurWynne



Joined: Sep 23, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 19:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think Chaos Dwarves need a nerf, but if you want to nerf them, it's certainly not at starting TV that they are oppressive. Take away Mutation access from the blockers, since it's basically just Claw access for them. If you want to encourage more fun builds, you can give Mutation access on normals to their minotaur.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 20:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle spam is the issue, not increasing the cost of the Blockers.
Even at 80 TV they would still be boring to play against (because, starting with Tackle, they could have Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw at 31 SPPs, quite fast).
With default Tackle they don't need to use a skill slot to take it, and the damage build is fast to get, also, makes it easy to replace them when injured.
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:08 Reply with quote Back to top

oh sure I agree with that. But the link I posted, the goal is to correctly price everything. If you want to start with block tackle mighty blow claw, I don't want to say no.. i Just want to make it prohibitively expensive. (Assuming a 6338 player, that, in my rules, would cost.. 170k AND someone on your team would have to be 1 MA slower than their price otherwise indicates)
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 21:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, but the question of my post was about official BB pricing of a Bull Centaur without Sprint.
I never talked about your pricing system or said it was more accurate or less accurate than the official pricing.
If we compare official BB pricing with your pricing system, of course there will be differences, no surprise, your system is different. Very Happy
Nelphine



Joined: Apr 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 23:15 Reply with quote Back to top

right, but official pricing quite literally has arbitrary 'and this player is not the price the guidelines say' circumstances. so it's not a very good pricing guide.

In general, the 'players over 100k halve the extra cost' is a really bad rule. its there because of difficulties replacing those players, but not all teams benefit from it. so almost every team that has players that benefit from it are generally better than teams that don't.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I know that official pricing has some exceptions for player costing more than 100k (hence why I asked about the Bull Centaur pricing), never said it is perfect.
The official system should have steps of 5k to be more accurate, for example, also, it doesn't take into account the synergies amongst skills.
Also, allowing players to stack up to 6 skills on a player has the potential to create freaks, and the more skills you stack, the more chances a hidden synergy, not calculated by TV, will break the balance.
C3I2



Joined: Feb 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 23:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes and no, the added skills is usually of decreasing importance and utility, the first *Block* is a lot more valuable then the last *pass-block* there is some obvious exceptions with combos, say the dedicated killstack that utilizes your one blitz per turn for maximum effect (Claw+MB+PO+Tackle+Juggernaut/Frenzy anybody?) - I am sure some just avoid playing teams with that - especially in the old PO days. However if you start with high value skills and stats, then get some more and roll a skill+ or two as well.... and there you go.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 03, 2020 - 23:46 Reply with quote Back to top

"The more skills and stats you stack", I should have said, but you get my point. Smile
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 04, 2020 - 06:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I am very glad that most of you are not on the player development crew. The bulls are the only thing that makes CDs worth playing. Otherwise you just have a handful of dwarfs and hobos.

Even the dwarfs are fine. I know people dislike the tackle spam but without it dwarfs become pushovers for fast and agile teams. If a change absolutely had to be made I would say to put mutation access on everything except the dwarf blockers as dwarfs are largely immune to magic and chaos.

A couple of clawed bulls would be fine rather than a line of three or four clawed dwarfs.

And still I prefer no change.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 04, 2020 - 13:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Clawed Bull Centaurs are totally against the fluff, their body shape is already the Hashut's blessing and they guard the Temple of Hashut. Read the background. Also, Chaos Dwarfs are resistant to magic and mutations, but when they use magic they slow turn into stone over the years (check Astragoth Ironhand special character, if you don't believe me).
So, they should lose MA when they take a Mutation.

Well, if you want to play an OP noob-friendly team, I'm sure you don't want any change. Very Happy

Also, I didn't say to remove Bull Centaurs, but just to remove default Sprint, just a nerf.

Third and last, but not least, judging by the latest team GW has released, it's not that their "development crew" is made by expert designers interested in balance. Very Happy Just a bunch of clueless people not even playing Blood Bowl.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Jul 06, 2020 - 06:42 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Clawed Bull Centaurs are totally against the fluff, their body shape is already the Hashut's blessing and they guard the Temple of Hashut. Read the background. Also, Chaos Dwarfs are resistant to magic and mutations, but when they use magic they slow turn into stone over the years (check Astragoth Ironhand special character, if you don't believe me).
So, they should lose MA when they take a Mutation.

Well, if you want to play an OP noob-friendly team, I'm sure you don't want any change. Very Happy

Also, I didn't say to remove Bull Centaurs, but just to remove default Sprint, just a nerf.

Third and last, but not least, judging by the latest team GW has released, it's not that their "development crew" is made by expert designers interested in balance. Very Happy Just a bunch of clueless people not even playing Blood Bowl.


Sure. I can agree with most of what you are saying. I just think that the teams are balanced fairly well and the places that are unbalanced are minimal.

Honestly, I just don't trust anyone to mess with the current version and make it any better. I would rather everyone including GW would just step away from the masterpiece.

By the way, does anyone believe GW will actually release a new version of Amazon, Norse, Vampire, Tomb King, or CDs? I don't see any of those as real money makers so I bet they just let them float without an update. I think we are more likely to see new rosters but that is just my guess. I was kind of shocked to see an ogre release for the same reason.
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