Vol
Joined: Sep 19, 2008
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 Posted:
Oct 17, 2008 - 02:44 |
 
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I'm new here. I've dragged a college friend here. Between us, we've played 12 matches.
Last night, I play my first pick-up [R]anked game. So far, I'd only played games that were scheduled in a tourney or league. The other coach tells me that the servers are down and we'll have to play somewhere else, and he walks me through connecting.
I appreciate his help, but it does sound suspicious. But, the game goes okay, I actually win, and the results post.
I get a note from my friend that he had a similar experience, but the other coach disconnected or lost is connection. My friend was suspicious, too. And made more so now that he has an unfinished game.
Question is, how can we tell that the servers are down? How can we tell what are legitimate alternate servers and which are loaded dice? |
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skeletor
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 17, 2008 - 02:59 |
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Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
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Vol, seriously, the dice aren't loaded. The clients are synched up and both make the same dice rolls. If you're really worried, then learn to host directly and cut out the proxy server.
http://fumbbl.com/help:DirectConnectForDummies |
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Vol
Joined: Sep 19, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 03:15 |
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Wow, I truly appreciate the hostile first, instruct later responses. It really reinforces the idea that the coaches here are a jolly community and that they are fun to play with.
Aside from that, I haven't looked at the code. I don't know where the dice rolls are made. They "both make the same dice rolls?" I'm guessing this is an approach to insure they are both using the same number generation algorithm. I guess the question remains, who spawns the seed?
Aside from that, how are games reported? Is the server really not responsible for any of this? Does it purely provide a connection point for two clients that are designed to keep each other in check?
Sorry, this isn't a joke. I missed the briefing. I'm guessing the briefing also pointed out that you are a jackass, but like I said. I missed it. |
Last edited by Vol on %b %17, %2008 - %03:%Oct; edited 2 times in total |
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Araznaroth
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 03:15 |
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Tried direct connecting an hour or so ago and that to didn't work, and yes I saw the Dummy tutorial, (cause I am one) still, no go. Just spent two hours and a half connecting and reconnecting. Not so fun.
And otherwise is there someone who would let me try to direct connect? |
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Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
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We don't mean to be hostile, Vol, honest! However... These questions have been asked before. The Random Number Generator is rigged... My opponent is clearly using the Admin Client... and so on.
With regards to the rolls. They're made using an algorithm called the Mersenne Twister. Check the forums for a review of the efficacy of that RNG. Each client knows the seed that is used for the rolls, and each generates the rolls independently. This is why the client will periodically report "roll out of synch" when you have a weird synchronization problem using the client. This isn't the case you're talking about. I don't know which machine creates the seed, but I would imagine it's the "host."
With regards to reporting the matches - fumbbl.com checks a few things, but it does not check anything regarding how the match was played. It checks the rosters to make sure they match what fumbbl expects. It checks to make sure that both teams have reported the "same thing" (score, casualties, spp, and so on. Christer knows the specifics.)
But yes, at the end of the day ,it's just as you suggest. The proxy is not responsible for any of this - it merely provides a connection point. If you're worried that we're all jackasses, well, play against some of us. I expect my opponent to have just as much fun as I do during a match, and do my utmost to ensure that happens. |
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skeletor
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 17, 2008 - 03:40 |
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Just accept that ther is no and will not be any cheats here, so you can stop being paranoid.
This is not battelnet! |
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Vol
Joined: Sep 19, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 03:59 |
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Kryten, thank you. Sorry about before.
And my match went well. I won, and it was reported. But it was the first time some one told me that we couldn't use the normal servers, so you can see why I was suspicious. I had no way to confirm this. As to my friend, it is possible his opponent honestly had a connection problem. We don't know, yet. It is also possible that he is ducking the rest of the match and that it had nothing to do with which server was chosen.
Skeletor, while this may not be BattleNet, this is BloodBowl. My only experience with hobby shop leagues have included cheating. Not every coach, not even the majority, and clearly not the best, but it has always been present. |
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skeletor
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:08 |
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Sure ther is cheaters, there is Goblin cheaters.... No some try to cheat by making multi accounts and so on, but i don´t think you will ewer find somthing to rig the game. The once that cheat is normaly getting bustet because there is so many guys spectating the games and pepol know eachother online and in RL. |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:10 |
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As other's have said, When you connect to a "proxy server" all it is actually doing is forwarding the data from one client to the other (and to spectators). All of the dice rolls are handled by the JBB app.
On hacking, I'd say that it's possible to do, but highly unlikely that you'll find anyone actually using hacks to predict/alter dice rolls in-game. The way I see it, anyone smart enough to put one together is unlikely to actually want/need to use it.
And finally, if you actually to manage to play someone that has written a hack, it is very unlikely to matter whether you used a proxy server, or a direct connection, or even who hosted. |
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PTGMach
Joined: Oct 12, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:11 |
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Relevant questions that, to me, remain unanswered:
How can one tell that the servers are down, other than word of mouth? What is the impact of servers being down? When -I- was told they were down, I successfully created a game on Sweden3, though I didn't have anyone attempt to connect. Is that the issue, that the connection service is interrupted?
I myself was not concerned about dice being loaded (though I can see that as -being- a valid concern.) I was more leery of the exploitation of the system. "Let's start this game that FUMBBL doesn't know about. Oh, hey, I don't like how the game's going. Oh well, I'll just break the connection and FUMBBL will never know." |
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The_Anarchist
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:18 |
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I was able to set up a game on the Aussie proxy without any trouble yesterday...
But the swedish ones haven't worked |
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Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
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The obvious way to tell if a proxy server down is this:
Attempt to launch a game. Wait for the message box to display "Waiting for client". If this fails to appear, then something is wrong. This is the current situation with fumbbl.com proxies 1, 2, 3 and 4.
WIth regards to disconnecting and failing to complete a game - it doesn't matter where you're playing. Direct Connect, fumbbl.com proxy, other proxy - the same rules apply. If you disconnect and fail to complete the match, then bad things happen. Follow the rules for disconnections here:
http://fumbbl.com/help:DisconnectionProblems
This is a very unusual event - in my 500+ matches I have never had an opponent deliberately disconnect and refuse to complete a match. |
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PTGMach
Joined: Oct 12, 2008
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:51 |
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well, when i was told that the servers were down, i tried starting one, and it -did- display "Waiting for client." from what i'm gathering now, it probably would have worked?
i actually followed the protocol at http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=help&op=rules . i waited the 15m (it was actually at least 20m, maybe even 30m), and he didn't return to the game. i PMed him on FUMBBL, and his relatively timely response was, (paraphrased) "i have to go do some things. if you see me around, we might play again." he had never made any indication in the game of needing to leave, and there was a very large window during which he could have PMed me to let me know what was going on. nor did that sound like a very encouraging attempt to complete the game we had already started.
the match itself, i couldn't care too much less about. it was shaping up to be fairly interesting, i thought, but it's just a game. i don't have the kind of schedule where i can arrange matches (the main reason i've been shying away from tourneys or closed leagues) but that particular opportunity was blown. i don't feel like retiring my team to see if our schedules happen to match up someday.
i really was more interested in the validity of server downness. and it sounds to me like they actually weren't. ... *shrug*
(edit: sorry, i made it sound like he dropped and failed to return to the game. in actuality, i -think- that our game server crashed. i'm not certain that i was connected to the game anymore, myself. but my client was sitting there trying, at least. perhaps his was, too. maybe he thinks -i- dropped..) |
Last edited by PTGMach on %b %17, %2008 - %05:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Oct 17, 2008 - 04:59 |
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| Quote: | | Skeletor, while this may not be BattleNet, this is BloodBowl. My only experience with hobby shop leagues have included cheating. Not every coach, not even the majority, and clearly not the best, but it has always been present. |
For people that dont believe this I'm pretty sure that there are cheats out there. I'm talking about genuine cheats not Don_Vito (cribbleobblepie) farting and claiming a concession when his opponent flees the room. I personally have seen very very few people cheat (Raae comes to mind) but I'm 100% clear that they did, also check out MBBLs readme and it dosent take you long to figure out they've had some really dodgy guys on there from time to time.
Fortunately FUMBBL and pretty much every other source of modern BB is pretty well protected against all that  |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
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