45 coaches online • Server time: 14:36
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Another I need a log...goto Post SWL Season LXXgoto Post A Very Steely Setup ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Ullakkomorko



Joined: Aug 10, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2009 - 14:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
Having just given Black Box another go, I am reminded again why I don't like it. I like to chat a bit when I play, and the black box opponents I have had don't.

Gl

Hf

Cya

Isn't a conversation. I would have just as much fun playing against the computer to be honest.


I bet you only played one match too, right?
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2009 - 14:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Ullakkomorko wrote:
Grod wrote:
Having just given Black Box another go, I am reminded again why I don't like it. I like to chat a bit when I play, and the black box opponents I have had don't.

Gl

Hf

Cya

Isn't a conversation. I would have just as much fun playing against the computer to be honest.


I bet you only played one match too, right?


No no, 3! 1 of which was fine as far as I remember, the other two not. I guess in ranked, you can avoid a bit the kind of people that don't chat, but in Blackbox, your stuck. But maybe it was just bad luck after all.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
logos



Joined: Aug 26, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2009 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Personally, I would love to see BlackBox supersede 'Ranked', run general tournies out of the BB division only, let Ranked transfer into BB for a short while and then dump the rest into League or something, it wouldn't take long for a new equilibrium to form.

Get rid of this idea that you can 'build' a team for a tournament, tournaments should be a measure of how you play generally as well as in individual matches, not how well you pick cherries from the orchard. It shouldn't be easy to make a good team, and it certainly shouldn't be easy to create a super team.

Perhaps I'm just masochistic, but I always thought something like BlackBox was the solution to some of fumbbls problems in ranked.


Last edited by logos on Jun 15, 2009 - 20:40; edited 1 time in total
CircularLogic



Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2009 - 16:08 Reply with quote Back to top

odi wrote:
I actually hadnt realized that B counts for championship points too, nice. Though it would be nice if you could get a listing of coaches who only played B Smile

Though Chamionship still takes you [R]anked CR to weight matches. Which in turn makes it more meaningless to compete in [B] for it.

For example:
Because you [B] guys have such a crappy crappy CR, I`m stuck in spot 41. Would CR not be used in the calculation, I`d suddenly be on spot 4.
Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2009 - 16:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Tournaments work perfectly in ranked. The championship is meaningless and basically ignored in ranked.

Tournaments work in the Blackbox only if you make a bucket-load of silly adaptations (see the other thread for that) and even then they are inferior to their ranked counterparts. A championship on the other hand would work perfectly in the Blackbox.

I can't see a reason why there should be both tournaments and a championship in both divisions. Let either be held in the division where it works best!
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2016 - 20:24 Reply with quote Back to top

The more things change the more they stay the same. Hat tip to Balle2000 for this.

7 years later and 2 of my two pet ideas, some sort of dynamic recognition system for players who do things that Christer thinks is good for the Box and mandatory enforced diversity, still hangin.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2016 - 21:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Necro!! Quick, someone call the forum police! (What's their number again?) Wink

Biggest issues in the Box are min/maxing and lack of racial diversity. I've suggested monthly racial medals previously, which would help with the second one.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Sep 05, 2016 - 21:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I think I have community solution to badges but we need someone who can rig a gitbit plug in. I'm all ideas and no technical skills which presents problems frequently. I'm better at a lot of other things but technical implementation, not one of them, not even close.
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 03:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Some races in League can do better by playing the inducement game. Flings love the Chef, Goblins love the bribe, some love the Wizard.

None of this happens very often in Box. What I propose is the option to bump up you nominal TV that goes into the matchmaking formula.

e.g. Tick a +100k box for your 1340TV goblin team, and the value that goes into the matchmaking formula becomes 1440TV. This won't guarantee you a 100k difference (90k difference is just as likely as 110k), but you will more than likely get at least one bribe.

Image

Pros:
- more variety in Box. Stars, wizards, bribes
- an ability for the destroyed team (sub 950TV), to bump up the TV and get a match
- more variety in available team builds and play styles

Cons:
- the very good high TV coaches find themselves wasting their time destroying rookie coaches who don't understand the implications of playing too far uphill.
- it breaks things somehow?


Last edited by ramchop on Feb 06, 2017 - 09:13; edited 1 time in total
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 04:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Cons: TPOMB teams can tick the +100 TV box too. Then your Gobs get nothing. Heaps of teams want inducements, and they get them by playing League, except when they keep relegating the big Goblins. Very Happy

It really has to be built into the scheduler, if Goblins really do win closer to 50% games playing up 50 or 100 TV, then that should act as a better match up for them. If Chaos wins further from 50% games by playing down 600 TV, then that should act as an even worse match up for them.

Probably Goblins and Flings should just always be matched against small teams, but prefer a chef or bribes if there's a choice between similar TV. Ogres probably have to play down 400 or so to have any sort of fair chance, Nurgs and Orcs also need to play down a bit.

Some teams need to play down to have a fair chance, others need to play up for the same, those should be a better match. Zons and the various Elves, Necro, and Chorfs should probably be playing up a bit against the more middling teams, or even against each other.

_________________
ImageImage
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 04:34 Reply with quote Back to top

awful awful necro....

_________________
Image
Image
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 05:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Could Black Box use some discussion in this regard? Yes, if the re-currant threads are anything to go by.

Is it not preferable to raise an old thread and add actual content to be discussed and at the same time provide an opportunity for others to leverage the discussions of the past without having to re-invent the wheel?

Cannot see how this is an "awful awful necro" at all....

_________________
NAF Regional TT Tourney Organiser (AUS/ NZ)
TT Bloodbowl in AUS - www.ausbowl.com
TT Bloodbowl in NZ - www.nzbbn.com

Image
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 09:11 Reply with quote Back to top

tussock wrote:
Cons: TPOMB teams can tick the +100 TV box too. Then your Gobs get nothing.


Yeah, I don't see that. Minmaxing is all about keeping the TV low isn't it? Nudge up the nominal TV and you see yourself bumping heads with even nastier teams than the killstack you've lovingly crafted.

There may well be ways to game the system - I'd like to hear them.

Funny. The next game after my post I hit Box in a quiet time and got 520 inducements with my Zons. Was a great game. Roxanna + Wiz!

My image in the post above has been approved. That's how I see it working.

I'm not saying that I've given this heaps of thought. Just bouncing the idea around in a thread that shouldn't be dead to begin with. CPOMB gets 80 pages, but this one "Bettering Box" can't be unearthed? Rolling Eyes
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

There's a lot of ideas, I've voiced a few myself. I'd be interested to see if Gobs and Flings really do win a few more games playing up 100+ in TV. I sort of doubt it, I think they'd do better against low AV and the smaller TV the better in general.

What we have, matching by TV, with protection for the younger teams, is great.

The flaws in it are pretty small and well exploited by those wishing to win a lot of games.

1: you can mono-activate a huge 100+ game killer team and get constantly unfair matches in your favour, because most people aren't even activating the big killer teams they have, and plenty of coaches just don't have anything that big anyway.

2: you can build tiny 11-man killer teams with no team RR and a Leader that will play around 1400 against teams with no real development to counter that. Sometimes old teams end up there by chance, other teams are just very careful about any TV growth.

Box is good fun, but a lot of that is the variety and surprise, and if you want to play a lot of games at less popular times of day here, sometimes you're just going to keep on hitting the same giant killers over and over and it does get to be less fun at some point.

_________________
ImageImage
m0gw41



Joined: Jun 12, 2012

Post   Posted: Feb 06, 2017 - 12:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea but just have it for halflings and gobbos (and ogres too I guess but not sure if they would gain advantage from this).

_________________
Image
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Powered by PNphpBB2 1.2 © 2003 PNphpBB Group
Credits