James_Probert
Joined: Nov 25, 2007
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 Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:09 |
 
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| RandomOracle wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
I doubt if anywhere near enough people want to completely dump [R] and run everything from [B ]
[B ] already has it's Majors so if people wanted it your way they already have had it.
Dumping [R] would just turn people away. |
We used to have one competitive division, which had a ton of established teams and the all the famous tournaments. I'm not surprised that [B] didn't overtake ranked at all. My proposal would have one competitive division (B), and one division which would allow choosing games as people wish. However, I'm not completely opposed to allowing people to choose their games in a [B] environment, as long as pure [B] teams can somehow be distinguished from those that have played games outside the box. I just don't think it makes sense to have two competitive divisions with such a small player base. |
In other words, you're now agreeing that the merger makes more sense than not, and effectively suggesting, like flix and sillysod, that a B sheduler in R is the best option?
Way to contradict yourself...
Personally, I feel very meh about B, and don't see it being able to do anything I can't manage myself, ta.
It'd be nice to have in R, but i don't feel the need for it (anywhere on the site), though I recoginse there are a vocal group that disagree with me. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:11 |
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| RandomOracle wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
I doubt if anywhere near enough people want to completely dump [R] and run everything from [B ]
[B ] already has it's Majors so if people wanted it your way they already have had it.
Dumping [R] would just turn people away. |
We used to have one competitive division, which had a ton of established teams and the all the famous tournaments. I'm not surprised that [B] didn't overtake ranked at all. My proposal would have one competitive division (B), and one division which would allow choosing games as people wish. However, I'm not completely opposed to allowing people to choose their games in a [B] environment, as long as pure [B] teams can somehow be distinguished from those that have played games outside the box. I just don't think it makes sense to have two competitive divisions with such a small player base. |
So basically put the scheduler into [R] and merge. The question is would it be the beginning of the end for pure [B ]? |
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RandomOracle
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:16 |
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I've always been for the scheduler and have said so in previous threads. However, I think playing in the box should be the default for competitive play. Games outside the box shouldn't count for CR. Some tournaments could be reserved for "pure" box teams. |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:21 |
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| regn wrote: | As much as I am looking forward to FFB getting finalized and bug-free, I can honestly say I dread the day that there is an influx of lrb4 teams and a forced retirement of teams that us FFB players have grown to lover over the months. I honestly don't see why a retirement of existing FFB teams is necessary. Christer states that it is "necessary for a number of reasons" but doesn't actually name any of them.
Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed by the work of the admins, ranging from Christer's dedicated efforts to run fumbbl as a whole to the coders and the friendly admins on irc (well, for the most parts. There are some glaring exceptions but I figure this isn't the place for such rants). I just feel that if LRB4 teams are allowed to transfer, skills and all, then surely there is no harm in keeping the existing FFB teams around as well.
edit: Chances are if my FFB teams (the only ones I ever play/care about) are wiped I won't have it in me to start all over from scratch. I don't mean this as some sort of impotent threat about quitting - I know a single player quitting doesn't matter one jot in the grand scheme of things. I just mean that a lot of the current FFB players will feel really deflated about having their teams deleted, unless there are some concrete reasons shown as to why this is necessary. |
Does anyone have an idea what those reasons might be?  |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:23 |
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| Frankenstein wrote: |
Does anyone have an idea what those reasons might be? |
I'm guessing Christer does |
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Chronotron
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:24 |
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Just want to repeat again that it'd be nice if they'd list the reasons they are wiping the ffb teams but going to the trouble of converting old lrb4 teams. In the end they're just pixels but it's dismaying not to hear the explanation as to why this is happening. |
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rokash
Joined: Mar 31, 2009
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:26 |
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Why not just convert the existing ffb betatest teams into a new [L] division? Then they won't interfere with anything competitive, if that is a concern, and people can just continue to goof around with them if they want. |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:27 |
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I'm sure that everything will work out in the end. And I'm equally sure that not everyone will be equally happy with it.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the release of the new client, but I think the fact that the current FFB teams will be wiped, will motivate me less to play until then. (I will still test out specific bugs) |
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spubbbba
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:29 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | spubbbba wrote: | Why don't we just add a scheduler to the new FBB division and effectively merge [R] and [B].
At the moment [B] is pretty much dead so I'd say that proves most people want a choice in the coaches and teams they face. But having a way to get games quickly is popular so why can't we have both? |
Blackbox isn't active because alot of the [B] player prefer the new FFB client.
When FFB goes live in Blackbox you will see how popular it is.
I have no problem if you want a scheduler in [R], but taking the Blackbox division away from those of us that enjoy it is counter-productive.
I only play [L] and [B], without [B] I would probably end up just logging in once a week (although some would probably appreciate that) |
I've heard this before but haven't seen any proof that [B] coaches favour FBB more than [R] coaches even if they do it might just be that they are attracted to what is new.
My concern is that this will be splitting the player base still further, we'll have [A], [S], 2 [L] divisions maybe [LRB4] and then a FBB [R] and [B]. If [B] teams are moved across and FBB teams reset at the same time then I can see FB[B] being popular in the short term but not if FB[R] was created at the same time.
Why can't we follow Sillysod's idea of having a Scheduler only tag for teams? You might even get a bit more variety as people might thow in the odd elf team if they want a quick game.
I'm mostly concerned about tournaments, if we are going to move all the old [R] teams across then they need to be in the new majors and I hope the tour will come back too as that seems to have died off this year. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:29 |
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| rokash wrote: | | Why not just convert the existing ffb betatest teams into a new [L] division? Then they won't interfere with anything competitive, if that is a concern, and people can just continue to goof around with them if they want. |
Because, FFB hasn't had any rules about repeat games, TV min/max etc?
Just guessing |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:31 |
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| Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | Because, FFB hasn't had any rules about repeat games, TV min/max etc?
Just guessing |
Neither has [L]  |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:31 |
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I stopped playing for about a month, and was just about to get back into the groove again, until I read this. Guess I'll just wait till the real thing launches before I bring back my Necro team in FFB. |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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1. There have been a lot of matches played where people have simply tested things and not played properly.
2. The division has not been running with competitive rules. Dropped matches have been frequent, and staff has not acted on those drops in the way they would in competitive divisions.
3. A number of early bugs pushed through some strange results.
4. Bugs have been around that added or subtracted winnings / injuries to teams.
5. Matches have been lost due to critical bugs.
6. People were told early on that there was a high probability of a team wipe.
7. The team of staff agree on that a clearing of teams is the best way to go. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:34 |
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| Shraaaag wrote: | | Mr_Foulscumm wrote: | Because, FFB hasn't had any rules about repeat games, TV min/max etc?
Just guessing |
Neither has [L] |
Yes but L isn't getting merged with R either |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2010 - 23:41 |
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| Carnis wrote: | | Crap decision, but most people will cope. It's guaranteed to push off some of the new blood, who only play on FFB now. |
Why? It was common knowledge that the div was for testing and that teams would be deleted from the very start. |
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