licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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 Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 22:32 |
 
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And what team exactly am I supposed to use in this?
I also despise Bills lame ass teams, so why I would want to play them, I dunno. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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| Posted:
May 01, 2015 - 22:34 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | Rat_Salat wrote: |
You're an average bloodbowl coach and want to get better? Listen to a picker. It's a hell of a lot easier to improve your strategy than your tactics. |
That makes no sense. If you are saying you are a picker (fair enough, your choice) and you pick your skills to align with your choice of games, then you would only be helping other rookies who wish to become pickers.
Other rookies who wish to improve may be trying to use your strategies against coaches in a wider range of games, where they have not picked, which would likely align to different results. |
I think you're wrong. The more educated a coach is, the better our community is. If the entire community consisted of nothing but pickers, the end result would not be that nobody would play each other... the result would be that coaches would have to play fair games instead of unbalanced ones.
You can't change the "picking" behavior of coaches without changing the rules of ranked, something I am by no means endorsing. What you can do is educate people how to select better games for themselves. For example:
This game, the opposing coach asked for tips while we played. This isn't unusual, and a lot of the newer coaches I play end up getting a lesson with their game, if they want it. The first lesson this coach learned was that perhaps a 1220tv skaven team with a natural oneturner and two mighty blow may not be a good choice for a AV7 elf coach.
So why was this game played? Well my opponent either stumbled in to it not knowing that the matchup was terrible, or he wanted to play a better coach and perhaps learn from it.
Why did I take a game against a coach and a team I was almost assured of beating? Well the simple fact of the matter is that there just aren't a lot of good coaches who are looking to play against 1220tv skaven with 2 mighty blow blitzers, a sacker, and a natural oneturner. Even now, they sit at 1330tv and it's really difficult to find a game against anyone. It's sort of why I stopped playing skaven. To win they need to bash, and nobody likes to play against clawpomb, at least not in ranked.
The team is sitting in gamefinder right now, and there's absolutely no interest. Please feel free to PM me if you would like a game... until then I'm gonna take what games I can get. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 01, 2015 - 22:54 |
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| licker wrote: | | And what team exactly am I supposed to use in this? |
Any [L]eague team not tied to some other league. For some reason I thought that you had more big [L]eague teams.
Are those orcs locked into anything?
A one off challenge could be anything though if you're not (immediately) going after the title.
| licker wrote: |
I also despise Bills lame ass teams, so why I would want to play them, I dunno. |
You may have heard me whine about the old CPOMB once or twice. But I haven't thrown him out yet. 
The nerfs don't turn them into pussycats but they help I think. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Endzone
Joined: Apr 01, 2008
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May 01, 2015 - 23:51 |
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The 'rule' of five can be misleading. Hiding five valued players behind a 6 player meat wall is a situational defence. Sensible against killer sides at times. If I have only 6 players I am prepared to take hits I think my team is unbalanced. You can only protect a back five for so long (sometimes only one turn). And then there are times (often) when you want to be more aggressive on your defensive set up. The 3-3-5 defence is a damage limitation option, but there are many others. |
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InternetKraken
Joined: Mar 17, 2011
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 00:24 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | It's sort of why I stopped playing skaven. To win they need to bash, and nobody likes to play against clawpomb, at least not in ranked.
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You could just try not playing Skaven with claw pomb. Its certainly possible to win with them without ever using a claw pombing blitzer. Then you'd probably get plenty of games. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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May 02, 2015 - 01:13 |
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I get plenty of offers for my R Skaven, and they have a cpomber.
I just get really tired of playing them when no one will ever play my nurgle (who also only have one cpomber) or anything else I throw up there.
Well the Norse get picked a lot by higher AV bash teams, or they used to, I don't know the last time I activate them.
Anyway, skaven are boring to play all the time 
@kodah
Yeah, I forgot about those orcs. I guess they are available for whatever. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 02, 2015 - 03:46 |
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Skaven oscillate between really fun competitive games and then rare wipeouts where everything goes disastrously wrong and you have to stack the rats high. At least for me. 200 Box games in with skaven and it's been fun yet trying. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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May 02, 2015 - 10:14 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | Rat_Salat wrote: |
You're an average bloodbowl coach and want to get better? Listen to a picker. It's a hell of a lot easier to improve your strategy than your tactics. |
That makes no sense. If you are saying you are a picker (fair enough, your choice) and you pick your skills to align with your choice of games, then you would only be helping other rookies who wish to become pickers.
Other rookies who wish to improve may be trying to use your strategies against coaches in a wider range of games, where they have not picked, which would likely align to different results. |
I think you're wrong. The more educated a coach is, the better our community is. If the entire community consisted of nothing but pickers, the end result would not be that nobody would play each other... the result would be that coaches would have to play fair games instead of unbalanced ones.
You can't change the "picking" behavior of coaches without changing the rules of ranked, something I am by no means endorsing. What you can do is educate people how to select better games for themselves. For example:
This game, the opposing coach asked for tips while we played. This isn't unusual, and a lot of the newer coaches I play end up getting a lesson with their game, if they want it. The first lesson this coach learned was that perhaps a 1220tv skaven team with a natural oneturner and two mighty blow may not be a good choice for a AV7 elf coach.
So why was this game played? Well my opponent either stumbled in to it not knowing that the matchup was terrible, or he wanted to play a better coach and perhaps learn from it.
Why did I take a game against a coach and a team I was almost assured of beating? Well the simple fact of the matter is that there just aren't a lot of good coaches who are looking to play against 1220tv skaven with 2 mighty blow blitzers, a sacker, and a natural oneturner. Even now, they sit at 1330tv and it's really difficult to find a game against anyone. It's sort of why I stopped playing skaven. To win they need to bash, and nobody likes to play against clawpomb, at least not in ranked.
The team is sitting in gamefinder right now, and there's absolutely no interest. Please feel free to PM me if you would like a game... until then I'm gonna take what games I can get. |
You have missed my point, as I suspected you might.
I don't care if you are a picker, it doesn't bother me, and has zero affect on me.
What I am saying is you are suggesting rookies listen to you, rather than other non-picking experienced coaches on certain builds and styles. You are, in several posts, suggesting that other top players are not picking the right skills.
Now, I will agree that your build might work for your style (picking) and therefore other rookie coaches who also want to pick could do well to listen.
However, I am also suggesting that a rookie coach who wants to undertake a wide variety of games, should take advice from coaches who like to take a wide range of games. The very coaches who's strategies and tactics you have dismissed as being at odds with your own.
So, my point stands ...
| Rat_Salat wrote: |
You're an average bloodbowl coach and want to get better? Listen to a picker. It's a hell of a lot easier to improve your strategy than your tactics. |
This quote does not make sense.
As for you wishing to play me, you know where the Blackbox division is. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 11:40 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: |
The team is sitting in gamefinder right now, and there's absolutely no interest. Please feel free to PM me if you would like a game... until then I'm gonna take what games I can get. |
I'm not really surprised. There is just no way that I would accept an open Ranked game vs a one turner. I personally just wouldn't do it.
I don't even think that they should be in the game. IMO they should have been gimped like the wood elf catcher. If that makes me a picker then yeah guilty as charged. I pick [L]eague almost every time.
As far as I'm concerned the rules have got old an I just ain't doing it.
As much as I whine about CPOMB I can live with it if I don't have to play mass CPOMB that often. Higher TV Box was too often. But one turner's? No.
Props for coaching up the rookies. How does the lesson go?
"First tip. You should never have accepted this game. You never had a chance. "
Ranked is clearly a different game so maybe I don't need to worry about advice like get yourself a one turner. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Balle2000
Joined: Sep 25, 2008
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 12:26 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | As for you wishing to play me, you know where the Blackbox division is. |
Boom.
Although, you are yourself doing the Box equivalent of picking with your Nurgle kill stack.
When are you joining the HLP Duke? |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 12:40 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | As for you wishing to play me, you know where the Blackbox division is. |
Boom.
Although, you are yourself doing the Box equivalent of picking with your Nurgle kill stack.
When are you joining the HLP Duke? |
Not sure it changes my win rate;
My current win rates are;
67% - Overall
68% - Ranked
67% - Blackbox
70% - Dwarves 250+ games (Blackbox)
69% - Skaven 250+ game (Blackbox)
69% - Wood Elves 250+ games (Blackbox)
69% - Norse 250+ games (Blackbox)
67% - Chaos 250+ games (Blackbox)
67% - Nurgle 250+ games (Blackbox)
68% - Humans 76 games (Blackbox) - HLP
So my win rate with Nurgle is pretty much the same, in fact arguably I am doing worse with playing Nurgle, so handicapping myself!
I would be interested in getting my Wood Elves up and running again, but I am waiting for the scheduler to be fixed for that (old teams versus old teams issue). In fact, I think I am the only coach who has won the sprints for Bash, Agile and Hybrid in the same season, but that's a different story. |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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May 02, 2015 - 15:58 |
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Honestly Tyrion, winning games with this and this doesn't impress me in the slightest. Neither does talking about winning percentages with agile teams in blackbox from before CRP. What exactly is your advice to new coaches? Put the killstack on every player? Shockingly, that works and wins games. We're all very impressed.
| Quote: | | As for you wishing to play me, you know where the Blackbox division is. |
That's a good place for you. Nobody can dispute your coaching ability Tyrion, but you've been leaning on the killstack for a good long time. No doubt, spamming claw, mighty blow, and piling on works better than five elves. That's been proven repeatedly, and as your wood elves show quite clearly, survival of a team like that against teams like yours and bill's isn't really possible over the long term, regardless of how the team is constructed.
Which is why we have two divisions. One for people like you, and one for people who don't want to play people like you. |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 16:31 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | | That's been proven repeatedly, and as your wood elves show quite clearly, survival of a team like that against teams like yours and bill's isn't really possible over the long term, regardless of how the team is constructed. |
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=515792
Some have been up to the challenge
But to be fair the new scheduler, while having been a blessing regarding extreme minmax, have made things very difficult for other teams. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 16:38 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | In fact, I think I am the only coach who has won the sprints for Bash, Agile and Hybrid in the same season, but that's a different story. |
Duke! Duke! Duke!
| Rat_Salat wrote: | | What exactly is your advice to new coaches? Put the killstack on every player? Shockingly, that works and wins games. We're all very impressed. |
No. I think you missed Duke's point about becoming a better coach.
The kill stack may improve the win% of poor coaches but they are still relying on getting the cas. A good coach can still win when the cas/KOs don't come.
Rookie coaches wouldn't get those win% with those two teams. I think that most coaches wouldn't.
I'm 1/1/1 vs the slime barons (though it should have been worse  ). I didn't quit because they are overpowered. I quit because it was the same thing almost every other match. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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Kam
Joined: Nov 06, 2012
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| Posted:
May 02, 2015 - 17:01 |
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@ Rat: as koadah said, you missed the point. You seem to only focus on the team building, which makes you look like a pixel hugger, both on the forums and IG when, for instance, you stall for the sure loss after using you apo.
Having a nice team is cool. Accepting it won't last forever is better. Trying to save your pixels at all cost won't make you a better coach. Learning how to play without stat freaks or how to rebuild a team despite the bloat and its lack of efficiency will.
Note: I'm not suggesting you should expose your valuable pixels and give free blocks/blitzes if you don't have to, but there's a huge difference between not exposing your pixels when it's not needed and pixel hugging. The game I was referring to is a perfect example. |
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