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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 10, 2017 - 06:08 Reply with quote Back to top

all the above. 5ST vamps are good for both. Go the MB route, but don't hesitate to give him the ball. 5ST blodge holds the ball well.

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Hail to Frik! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Raiders of the Lost Tomb
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 10, 2017 - 09:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Get block and tackle and then see how he is doing and whether there have been any other stats.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Dec 10, 2017 - 12:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Do not take MB would be my suggestion actually. Vamps are never going to win the attrition game vs most teams, and while having someone to bite back a bit (ho ho) might seem appealing, all you really do is remove flexibility from the roster.

In theory, every single vampire on your team should be just as adept at every possible role as the others - ballcarrier, marker, blitzer, gazer etc. Obviously +stats make some vampires more capable than others, but you don't want to specialise them in my opinion, because if you keep a stable of players who can perform any role, then when things go wrong (Bloodlust) you can change your preferred movement for a not-so-bad substitute.

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Stopponi



Joined: Dec 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 13:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi guys! Im new to Vampires and i wanted to start a new team.
Here we re talking about how to develop a team and that helped me a lot tnx. But i wanted to know if you have any "starting advices" like first of all how many vampires to start with ? 3 ? 4?
Tnx!
Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 14:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Start with three. You should be able to get 2/3 of them dodge and even blodge before you can afford the fourth.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 14:48 Reply with quote Back to top

I started with 3 as well, it's better to skill those ones a bit before adding others.
Try to have a bench of 2-3 Thralls.

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Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
Stopponi



Joined: Dec 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 15:01 Reply with quote Back to top

Mmm So how about 3 Vamps 3 rr and 11 thralls? or is 4 RR, 3 Vamps,9 thralls a better lineup?
dorfeus



Joined: Nov 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 17:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Have you seen team help page?
https://fumbbl.com/help:LRB6VampireSetUp
Stopponi



Joined: Dec 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 18:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh yes Dorfeus tnx! Because of that page i wanted to start my vampire career with 2rr and six vamps but then i thought a more experienced coach could lead me in something more reliable thats why i asked here Very Happy
ErobererZim



Joined: Dec 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I start with 3Vamps and buy a 4th after the other 3 have min. 3 skills. And stay on 4 , 5-6 be to much for me.

My Team: https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=747010
there have no Statfreaks but working well.
Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 13, 2017 - 22:48 Reply with quote Back to top

RogueBanshee he definitely needs Block and then Pro or Sure Hands and make him your ball carrier.

I have a Strength 5, Block, Sure Hands (used to be AG4), Movement 7, Stand Firm for last skill at Legend Orc Blitzer on my SWL team and he became my designated ball carrier.

https://fumbbl.com/p/player?player_id=10635042


Best decision I ever made, if he'd had Dodge he would have been perfect but he would have lost either a Stat or Stand Firm for that to be the case. Most hits on him were -2DB or 1DB if Dauntless worked. If they got 2DB hits on him it was my own silly fault for letting him get exposed and hit.

He used to be great to threaten a ball carrier too on defense, because at AG4,ST5 he went places. Stand Firm was golden as he was a tough boulder to move; like a big guy but reliable and with Block.

I'd give this guy Block next skill and either Sure Hands or Pro after that. Standfirm at 76 SPP, ignore any doubles you roll and take any +ST,+MA or +AG that come his way.

If you turn him into a hitter he's not going to live as long as you'll be putting him in harm's way. ST5, AG4, Blodge, Sure Hands is the safest ball carrier you can build. There are advantages to both Sidestep and Stand Firm, with Sidestep giving more security against Juggs/Frenzy hits.
mrbibitte3



Joined: Mar 28, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 19, 2017 - 20:57 Reply with quote Back to top

I won a tabletop league championship with them and finished second on another. Tried both 5 and 6 Vampires extensively. 6 Vampires with 4 Rerolls and without Pro is the way to go. While going up to 6 Vampires, only keep a Rookie at a time, though. Ideally, Blodge up (or Dodge up if you're in a hurry) what you already have before hiring another Rookie.

With 6 Vampires, if you play conservatively and skill them passively (Blodge, Side Step, Tacle and Guard) instead of choosing Pro, you won't have to activate all of them each turn (4 is a good average). Played this way, Bloodlust is not as bad as advertised. Stick your Vampires somewhere annoying and let the Side Step + Blodge combo casually push them closer to the action without rolling some Blood Lusts. Choose your spots well, though, as AR8 isn't even adequate to play Blood Bowl.

Vampire power : ST4, AG4 and AR8 is simply a better proposition than a Thrall, no questions asked. Also, while your opponent has to deal with your Vampire's pressure and potential, they are less on your Thrall's backs... leaving them available to be bitten. With this effect, I experienced less overall casualties (including bitten Thralls) fielding 6 Vampires instead of 5. With 15 players on roster, you'll find yourself rarely playing underhanded.

Group power : It's a bit like Lizardmen. The team's strength comes from the number of ST4 in play. In game, the impact of each Vampire loss is exponential. Six ST4 is 1.25 times better than 5 which is 1.25 times better than 4, etc. You get the point.

Less drama : With 6 Vampires, there's always one available when and where you need him. Plays are less risky this way, letting you use rerolls on critical Bloodlusts instead of failed 2+... Especially since Vampire's greatest weakness is their average movement (the fewer Vampires, the more GFIs needed). Also, pray for some MV7 Vampires, it's day and night.

Six Vampires makes your opponent (over)think : Since six Blodge-SideStep-Hypno Gaze-Guards could infiltrate from everywhere, your opponent will have a harder time defending his offensive drive (sic). Chances are his cautiousness to thwart all your possible infiltrations will prevent him from moving his offense forward. Remember HypnoGaze will almost be systematically overvalued by your opponents (don't forget to trash talk some HypnoGaze possibilities while playing - use every edge you can). True that it can be a game winner, but use with care as 3+ is not reliable and your rerolls are very precious.

Finally, remember Vampire drives must be short (and sweet). You'll be at your strongest on the first turn of a drive... then it's a downward spiral of flames. Use all this Vampire hotness to be on fire. Push for a quick score (good or bad). A very well developed Vampire team (2000K+) is perfectly happy playing defence (the ball is already halfway to the goal line). Thrall-kick the ball short, then kick short again... and short again. Infiltrate, steal, score. Don't Brawl. Having access to six ST4 players looks like a bully's dream but it ain't. A Vampire that brawls doesn't reposition himself where he's annoying. Find all the weak spots where you can thrive and stick your Blodge-SideStep there. HypnoGaze Guard players to disrupt (where it doesn't matter -much- if it fails). Blitz your best toolbox as close and safe as you can to the ball carrier. See the hate flow through your opponent's eyes as he side-step-pushes you closer and closer to his ball carrier. Blitz the ball carrier, scoop the ball and score... or rudely invite a score. Repeat the chaos to climb it's ladder.

... Also, if you play with a 4 minutes timer. Be quick to think and rethink your plans on the spot. There's lots of dices to throw and Vampires eat seconds fare more quickly than Thralls !!

Smile
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2017 - 10:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Great post
With 6 vamps 0 pro, surely 5 RR would be better than 4?
Stoffel



Joined: Sep 06, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2017 - 14:17 Reply with quote Back to top

I would go for Block then Pro and use him for both roles. Versality is the strength of the Vamps. Block u want for a Carrier and a Hitter, Pro with BL and the next skill is far away look how the Rest developt until then.
mrbibitte3



Joined: Mar 28, 2013

Post   Posted: Dec 20, 2017 - 17:42 Reply with quote Back to top

No Pro on Vampires as you're already in a losing weapon's race. While most teams have some Block, you have nothing. The time you get Dodge, they've stacked an array of Block, Dodge, Tacle, Guard and Mighty Blow. The time you get Blodge, they got even more Block, Dodge, Guard, Tacle and Mighty Blow with some Side Step/Stand Firm. By the time you get Side Step, you'll be facing all kinds of fancy pants... only then, you're starting to catch up with one of the most annoying skill combos in the game, spawned on strong ST4 dudes. Next, sprinkle what you need first in your ecosystem... Tacle or Guard. Then, for the perfect toolbox Vamp, Tacles gets Guard (with a Diving Tacle somewhere) and Guard gets Tacle. Add a Mighty Blow on your favorite Vamp, he's now your main blitzer. +AG Vampires are golden (HypnoGaze is finally reliable). +MV Vampires are silver (Add a Frenzy threat to one of them to open up the sidelines and some opportunistic HypnoGaze + Crowd Surf Combos if you're feeling bored or naughty. Don't push your luck to often with that, though). +ST, Blodge and SideStep is cool on a ball carrier since Vampires have the tendency to eat their covering Thrall and it's then useful to have some "natural athletic abilities" to survive a blitz.

Vampires start with no tools. To be competitive, you need tools and Pro wastes some valuable space in your toolbox.

Thralls get Kick and Wrestle (it creates unexpected holes to exploit and a downed Thrall is secure and still can be bitten). A Wrestle+StripBall+Tacle Thrall is useful as a deep sweeper (be prepared for a heartbreak if a game situation requires you to bit him). You don't have skill space for Strip Ball on Vampires. Dodge on doubles for mobility (it gets your Thrall where you expect him to be bitten) and natural protection. With 4 Blodge+Sidestep+Guard Vampires, Guard isn't needed on Thralls.

Sp00keh wrote:
Great post
With 6 vamps 0 pro, surely 5 RR would be better than 4?


5 rerolls would be great but 4 is fine, really. At 70K each + 6 developed Vampires (sporting an integrated Dodge reroll), you're already busting the 2.200K mark and often giving much inducements. For those leagues still using it, you certainly don't want to easily give a wizard. Also, with a winning team record, you'll be popular and often grab that +1 Fame which will, once in a while, give you one more reroll.

Instead, practice some good positioning that will avoid lots of dice rolls and prevent Vampires from being activated. Don't be afraid to be content and call it a day after activating four Vampires. It will happen. Hell, when accidentally kicking deep against a watertight deployment, it shouldn't be odd to blitz and then forfeit the rest of the turn just not to waste a reroll or a Thrall. Let your opponent catch up mid-field and then put that saved reroll to good use... Hell, it may sound like heresy, but against most teams, Vampires don't have the movement to chase and contest the ball near the goal line anyway.

Playing Vampires is already a dice festival. Don't be greedy and share the party ! Learn to let your opponent do the (sometimes very numerous) dice rolls needed to fend off your Vampires ! Six ST4+Blodge+Sidestep+Guard+Tacle players is already a very formidable force to fight off for almost every team. Let them eat their player ressources trying to reliably 2 dice Block them out of the way. Then, smile while they consolidate with what they have left against your numerous tactical possibilities.

Choose your Blocks well as it's expensive to engineer because you have to move a Thrall close or you risk your Vampire leaving his position to bite a hapless Thrall in the No Man's Land. Don't Brawl. Sure, you'll dish around 1.5 CAS a game (or less) while eating around 4. So what if you win games ? A player that blocks can't move. If your Vampire isn't relevant anymore, don't Block mindlessly. Dodge him to a better annoying spot and HypnoGaze where it's a nice bonus if it works (and isn't a disaster if it fails). Being on the move is what wins games.

Sometimes, when your Vampires (ahem, dices) are very obedient, you'll have to excuse yourself for wining because... well, there's nothing your opponent could have done to change the tide anyway. Starting Vampire teams are pitiful. 2.200K+ Vampire teams are fearsome with the right coach at their head. Either you've got the right fit or not. But if you have it, you won't make many friends and leave a trail of headaches in your wake !


Last edited by mrbibitte3 on Dec 20, 2017 - 20:35; edited 1 time in total
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