koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 24, 2024 - 00:28 |
 
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Ardonite
Joined: Feb 02, 2014
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Mar 24, 2024 - 01:21 |
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I guess my question is, why would you ask or expect a bunch of min maxing strategy gamers not to use the optimal strategy? The way the game is constructed, scoring quickley is not advantageous, it's just the nature of the turns system. So if the defense isnt good enough to hold or force a score, it would be like intentionally giving your oponent an advantage if you score quick when you dont have to. |
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Mongoose
Joined: Mar 22, 2024
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Mar 24, 2024 - 01:23 |
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it is in league, for player development. however it does not seem to matter when every game is a exhibition style, though. |
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Ardonite
Joined: Feb 02, 2014
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Mar 24, 2024 - 02:20 |
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If the goal of the league is to win games, then no, it isnt. Fumbbl is an eternal league, where growth per game definatley matters less, when the number of games isnt limited. Now, stalling when you are already up one would often be bad strategy |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 02:39 |
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| Mongoose wrote: | | tournaments are different than leagues i suppose, in than regard. |
Nah, it's just your league. In my town, we embrace the meta created by stalling, which, by the way, benefits most the good teams that stall the least. That's how tournaments are different from leagues. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 04:09 |
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| Mongoose wrote: | | it is in league, for player development. however it does not seem to matter when every game is a exhibition style, though. |
No? I've arguably got one of the better abilities to develop players in leagues, regularly having single players get more than 50spp in a 10 game season. My MA5 AG 4+ secret league player rolled 4 stats and 2 chosen primaries in less than 25 games. I've got multiple legends in 2016 (when you need 176 spp for legend) in less than 30 games, ranging from lizards to nurgle to elves, and orcs in 2020. (And all of these legends are still supported by emerging stars and stars all through their team.)
You don't need to score fast to get loads of spp. You need to control the whole game, particularly when you're on defense. If you dictate where the ball will be for 15 turns of the match, you get lots of spp. |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 04:17 |
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| Nelphine wrote: | | You don't need to score fast to get loads of spp. You need to control the whole game, particularly when you're on defense. If you dictate where the ball will be for 15 turns of the match, you get lots of spp. |
Totally. And if you run them way down on players so you can score over and over, scoring fast gets you gobs of SPP. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Mar 24, 2024 - 09:22 |
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Sounds a bit stupid rule to frown upon stalling ?
Do you also force people to run max move every turn into opponents endzone ?
Why not also force pass and handoff every turn also if that gets you further ? |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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The_Murker
Joined: Jan 30, 2011
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Mar 24, 2024 - 09:40 |
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Hi, Mongoose
You basically walked into a room with 1000 people in it and told us all we are playing the game we love incorrectly, and we could all be having more fun if we played differently.
You kind of had to know that wasn't going to go well, right? Ten years ago there would have been some pretty fast and nasty replies, but things have lightened up quite a bit here, in my opinion. We're all 10 years older and more mellow, for starters.
Generally speaking, the FUMBBL competitive division has three types of Blood Bowl players in it:
Players who are very good at winning the game, players who are in the process of getting good at winning the game, and players who will be leaving soon, because they can not seem to make any progress towards improving.
People who don't last long, or don't improve, generally blame the random number generator for giving them horrible dice, the likes of which they never see on table top. Or sometimes, they begin to hate the 'cut-throat nature' of the players here, who just seem to smash their teams with much better put together teams. There are lots of reasons to quit, but those are two common ones.
I like to imagine some lucky and very smart guys quickly figure out what a completely stupid waste of time it is to have a frustrating dice game as a hobby. And boy, is on-line Blood Bowl ever frustrating. If you stick around for a few hundred games, you are going to see some very crazy dice, both for and against you. Usually against you, because people here specialize at letting you fail at stuff before they do, if they know you are not that experienced.
The people who do last for hundreds or thousands of games need to fall in love with the process of improvement, and gaining experience. Without that love and/or dedication, you won't start to win. Not with any regularity in the competitive divisions.
We all would like to see new players to FUMBBL like you stick around and improve, but I can guarantee you that you aren't about to convince anyone not to stall. A good stall increases the chance of winning, and we are all trying to win.. usually.
The 4th kind of player on FUMBBL are those who gather in groups of like-minded individuals and form custom leagues. Some guys may have reached out to you already to invite you to join a league you might like.
I hope you can find a place here that you can enjoy. It might not be in the C division. Not yet, anyway. Good luck with the norse.
What do you think of the Beer Boars? |
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Join the wait-list. Watch the action. Leave the Empire. Come to Bretonnia! |
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spelledaren
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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Mar 24, 2024 - 10:00 |
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Nice post Murker! |
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FUMBBL! |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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Mar 24, 2024 - 11:26 |
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Considering the turn-based nature of BB, the Kick-Off table, the potential Injuries coming from those 3 LOS blocks etc. stalling is a necessary evil.
That said, I think that, when a team is clearly unable to defend, due to being severely outnumbered, the riskless stalling inside a cage makes for a boring game, while a dynamic stalling, requiring risks to be performed, keeps the attention of both coaches on.
I think I can stall till turn 8 or 7 in most games and I will do it due to competitive reasons, but I understand that it can be boring for the opponent.
Getting better at the game for sure helps to stop a stalling, but it's not always possible.
If a team is outnumbered, stopping a stalling can be hard or impossible even for an expert coach.
Sometimes it's not a matter of coach's skill, but just too many removals. Then trying to defend at any cost could just lead to an even more miserable 2nd half.
So, to reply to Mongoose: here on FUMBBL the mindset about stalling is not going to change, because stalling helps to win games, as boring it can be. Not saying that stalling is right or wrong, just it helps to achieve the win.
You could try to bring your TT friends here and play a league with your own anti-stalling rules or create an anti-stalling league with like-minded coaches. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Mar 24, 2024 - 12:10 |
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This "dynamic stalling" just sound like a badly played offence ?
Or am I missing something ?
Also stalling is not boring, it just means that you out played or out rolled your opponent. |
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Kaptain Awasoam, Dicer of All Men and Women and Children and Puppies. |
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The_Great_Gobbo
Joined: Aug 04, 2014
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Mar 24, 2024 - 12:14 |
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I luv teems stallin, speshully in der furst alf, az it teks five o der oppersishun ladz out o der picture so we kan gang up an kikk der snot owta der uvverz. Plus we iz fine wiv only bein 1-0 down at alf time wiv opefully a numbers advantage in der sekund alf! So lern ter luv der stall an akkcept dey iz gunna skore den spend der rest o der alf pikkin off dere players an fowlin like mad. Nuffin stops a stall like a couple o casualties! |
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Gridironman
Joined: Mar 18, 2022
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Mar 24, 2024 - 12:23 |
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I do not like the attack on Mongoose. I know Mongoose from one of my draft leagues. I think he will have more fun in the elf one but he is currently in the secret league variation. Elves do not stall--almost every other team does because it is the most efficient way to earn wins and draws. Draws should be recategorized in your mind as wins. If the point of the game is winning with this mindset I would advise you @Mongoose that stalling provides you with wins and draws.
[edited by staff to remove some references to deleted posts] |
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An Amorican Nuffler that bashed in his youth. |
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spelledaren
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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Mar 24, 2024 - 12:50 |
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Well at least most answers were nice about it!
Elves are also very good at stalling? |
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FUMBBL! |
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