monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 13:23 |
 
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The same whiners that complained the MU's were picking on elves still railed at the existence of MU's when they switched to Dwarves...why?
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Because choise of race does not amend the stupidity of playing with casualties as your first priority. It still changes the fundament of the game. |
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Rusk
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 14:58 |
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What I find problematic and frustrating about playing (good) dwarf coaches is the small number of critical dice rolls they have to make. Essentially they only have to pick up the ball and then start grinding. Even a double skulls won't matter much if you know how to set you players and choose you blocks carefully, and even less when you have rerolls for 40K (80K). Add Block-Tackle to the Longbeards and when they get Guard they dont need anything else (MB, but that is just a bonus) for keeping even the most energetic defense at bay. They have strength and time on their side, and Trollslayers to deal with any Big Guys.
I can't say I blame elf coaches who dont play dwarves. They cancel your Dodge-skill (which elves often rely on to stay on their feet) and Out-Guard you by a mile. You can only use your wizard once in a game and he is expensive (although if you have to play against Dwarves in a tournament, buy one! The "Fireball in the Cage!" trick is well worth it 
So, am I bad at playing defense against dwarves? Probably.
/Rusk |
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mstrchef13
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jan 19, 2005 - 15:17 |
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So... does that mean that dwarves are broken, and the BBRC needs to fix them? Take away tackle as a free skill, make their rerolls higher? |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:02 |
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Not exactly. The general point is that Dwarves are boring to play with AND against. They don't bash all that hard when compared to higher TR Orcs or Chaos, it's just that since the team build-up leaves no alternative to the cage and crawl attack most games against dwarves run along similar lines.
In the end it gets like watching a replay of your previous match against dwarves. Making them weaker will not make them more amusing. |
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Wotfudboy
Joined: Feb 17, 2004
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:06 |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:09 |
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Probably not. Its not that they win a lot of games, they are the 12th most winning race on fumbbl, though that includes several stunty and pact teams, without them dwarves are the 7th most winning team. They don't lose often (only three official races lose less games).
So they are not the strongest team in terms of winning games, but they leave little opportunity for the opponent to control and influence the game. And thats not really fun to play against.
Basically you need to do tournement play to get a lot of games with dwarves. Thats where real BB is played anyway. |
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Da_Todfatha
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:14 |
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| Quote: | | Because choise of race does not amend the stupidity of playing with casualties as your first priority. It still changes the fundament of the game. |
This is a misnomer that unfortunately some MU members perpetuate, but whatever...stereotype and generalize if you must. 
The problem with doing anything to Dwarves is that they are sooo limited in their skill choices as it is. What would you give to a Longbeard (or any agility 2 player that has block) for their first regular skill? Removal of tackle imo would not make that big a difference. Elves don't have all that much dodge skill at least initially, which is the only thing that Tackle combats.
Dwarves are not broken. They aren't liked, just like all bashy teams, because of their ability to smash other teams. Orcs aren't liked, Chaos isn't liked, and Khemri isn't liked for the same reasons. They tend to Cage and smash. |
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Rusk
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:19 |
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I dont know, I am not really qualified for passing judgement on that. I guess there are some unbalanced team rosters, but it is still very much the ability of the coaches that decides the game (and a little bit of luck .
But what do Dwarf coaches spend their money on when they have a full roster and 8 (cheap) rerolls? If they don't play a chaos team who spent a little to much time reading the "Khorne manual of Death", I guess their income exceeds the number of players gettin injured. So retire aging players?
Mind you, I only had a Dwarf team once and it was here on Fumbbl, and I found it a bit boring (partly because only Chaos and Orc and other dwarves (incl chaos dwarves) wanted to play them , so I really don't have any long term experience with them. Actually I find Chaos Dwarves even more annoying and unbalanced, but that is because a friend of mine plays them and he is a really bad winner
PS, forgot another often seen and annoying trait with Dwarves: Stand Firm. How annoying is that? Very. But also very much in line with the Fluff of dwarves. |
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Revener
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:19 |
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Not all Dwarf player use cage, personally I try to do 3 turners and avoid stalling unless I have too. That mostly because cage is boring 
Havn't played my Team in ages though ... |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:30 |
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| Da_Todfatha wrote: | | Quote: | | Because choise of race does not amend the stupidity of playing with casualties as your first priority. It still changes the fundament of the game. |
This is a misnomer that unfortunately some MU members perpetuate, but whatever...stereotype and generalize if you must. |
Hold on.. let's not get silly here... playing for casualties is an entirely valid reason for playing bloodbow. Notice how yer ff gets a bonus on the roll for both cas & TDs. Bloodbowl lore / fluff is filled with violent yet hopeless teams. I don't think all teams should be score focused and violence for the sake of violence is sheer delight.
Now, if we are limiting it to fumbbl, I'd say team killing is not cool because I can't reach through the internet and smack ya upside the head when you act like a dork as I can in table top.
That said. Elves are an abomination and must be destroyed!  |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:36 |
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How the hell did this become the 134665234th thread about MU's? It's about DWARVES!! |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:45 |
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Becus we are 1337 and r0x0r and you are ghay!
Why don't I like to play dwarves? Because I know 9/10 I'll come away with 8-11 spps (MVP + 1 or 2TDs). Considering my personal goals - team development - why try to smash dorfs when I can knock around chaos boys (av 8 ), chaos dorfs (av8 + av7 on the ball handlers), nurgles (av 8 ), khem (av 7 ), necros (av 8 + tasty wolvies that need a boot), and utterly pillage humies ( , skaven (7) and carve up elf lads for an appetizer (7,8 ). I won't take any more damage from the other bashers than I would versus dorfs but I'm looking at 4-8 more spps and a good chance at a defensive turnover for another 3 spps.
That said. I really enjoyed my fumbbl cup matches versus dwarf teams and in a tournament environment I like to play them. But when I'm weighing matches, the dorfs come out short every time. |
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Vero
Joined: Dec 30, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 16:51 |
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I have a friend who don't play dwarves because they're hard to bash against. Guess some people don't like that the alternative tactic of bashing is taken out by high av. |
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deathgerbil
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 19, 2005 - 17:02 |
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Dwarves are a pain in the butt to play against from a basher point of view because their armor is nearly all 9 (very good), thick skull on just about everyone, and a boatload of skills on top of that too!
Its hard to out-str them when every single guy on their team has guard, and they can easily bash with mb. Create a dwarf team with dirty player instead of guard and you have the single most evil team on fumbbl, - a team with dirty players that are harder than heck to kill.
Yes, their movement is a little slow, but not horribly so (compared to chaos warriors, they only have -1 movement) but they have so many people with agility 3 that they can easily do a passing game and pick up the ball, unlike khemri. The blitzers AND the runners both have nice movement and agility, so they can do pretty much anything that the team needs them do to, while the longbeards are simply unkillable walls of thick skull/av9/block/tackle/god-knows-what-else.
The funny thing is, it seems that their getting more powerful in the vault with POSITIONAL secret players, just like the goblins! Except the goblins get a pogo stick. the dwarves get the deathroller. really fair... |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 19, 2005 - 17:10 |
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more powerful in the vault with POSITIONAL secret players
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Yep. Thats just insane. Imagine dwarves with a deathroller and a chainsaw. Ehrrm sure I'm going to play vs. them then. Sure. |
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