Ulvardar
Joined: Jun 21, 2005
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 Posted:
Jul 21, 2005 - 16:40 |
 
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Well, I've been playing for a while and I wonder what behaviours can be considered as 'non-sports'. For example, not scoring a TD when you have the chance of it. making your contrary to lose one turn, pushing a contrary player out of bounds before making a clear TD (maybe in a bit unnecesary way), throwing the ball to a far empty square to avoid your contrary taking it and so on.
I'm not asking about fouling, that's been discussed a lot in the forums, but... what can be considered as 'legal but a bad behaviour'?  |
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Gueulemer
Joined: Oct 25, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 16:50 |
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Well, for starter, it s all about bad behavior, like insulting because of loosing, and so on.
Fouling on T16, is one because it 's without any purpose except for payback. Taking 15 min to play a turn can be really painful. You see what I'm saying. |
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Jinxed
Joined: Jul 04, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 16:57 |
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Bad sportsmanship often is how you perceive things. |
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dagda331
Joined: Mar 06, 2005
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Jul 21, 2005 - 16:59 |
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here (hope I don't draw too many flames) -
Stalling is not bad behavior, if it wins you the game - if you successfully stall on me, its my fault for getting in a position to allow it in the first place
Crowdpushing is not bad behavior, if it wins you the game - if you successfully crowdpush me, its my fault for letting it happen
the key here is: if it wins you the game
Bashy teams generally dont win without stalling - this is a fact of bloodbowl - its up to us elf coaches to use tactics that force them to score when they can instead of sitting on the goal line looking dwarfish |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 16:59 |
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Stalling isn't unsportsmanlike.
Pushing players out of bounds isn't unsportsmanlike, unless it's the last turn, or the outcome of the game is decided anyway.
Throwing the ball away isn't unsportsmanlike.
These are all things that are to be expected, and can be dealt with if you know what you're doing. If you can't deal with stalling you deserve to lose. If you put your players in a position where they can be pushed out, they deserve to be. If you don't protect the ball well, you can expect to lose it.
It's that simple.
Now, those things Guelemer mentions, are unsportsmanlike. Insulting / fouling on t16 / whining / playing slow is unsportsmanlike. Though I do notice that I've been talking much about luck lately. I'll stop doing that. |
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The plural of anecdote isn't data. |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 17:06 |
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| Ulvardar wrote: |
1)For example, not scoring a TD when you have the chance of it. making your contrary to lose one turn,
2)pushing a contrary player out of bounds before making a clear TD (maybe in a bit unnecesary way),
3)throwing the ball to a far empty square to avoid your contrary taking it and so on. |
I've sorted them by number to clarify my personal opinion:
1) It is called 'stalling', there are numerous threads about it. Stalling a turn at the end of a half to rob the opponent of having 2 turns to score seems like a bit of common sense to me. Stalling all half to pound an opponent into the ground may seem unsportsmanlike, but it is the was some teams are designed I guess...
2) 'unnecessary' crowd pushing is also relative - crowd pushing that ST 5 War Dancer before your TD to hopefully cas him and keep him off the pitch rest of the game? Again, sensible in most cases. Crowdpushing a rookie lino turn 16 before you score the winning TD and break a tie game? A bit cheesey, as you risk it all for very little gain I would say. (Double skulls and whatnot eh?)
3) Are you talking about 'punting' here? They do it all the time IRL - what else is a badly beat up AG team supposed to do to avoid losing to a bashy but slow team? If you really think this tactic is poor sportsmanship, maybe you should start leaving a player in the backfield to prevent it from being effective, no?
The really 'poor' things are pretty much as mentioned before: most notably taking looooong turns...but it is otherwise all rather relative. Again, most of these 'bad sportsman ship' incidents you mention could probably be avoided by player placement most of the time! - i.e. they are opponents taking advantage of a situation that might be prevented if you had someone in position to make them relatively worthless plays.
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Buur
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 21, 2005 - 17:10 |
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| Quote: |
Pushing players out of bounds isn't unsportsmanlike, unless it's the last turn, or the outcome of the game is decided anyway.
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if you place a player to catch the ball an score an it misses its not bad sportsmanship to crowdpush even in turn 8 you took the risk .... if you foul during the match and i decide its best for my gameplan to delay the retaliation until turn 8 its not badsportman ship to turn 8 foul....
-Buur |
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For most people, reason is nothing but their own believes. |
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torsoboy
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 17:12 |
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| Buur wrote: | | Quote: |
Pushing players out of bounds isn't unsportsmanlike, unless it's the last turn, or the outcome of the game is decided anyway.
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if you place a player to catch the ball an score an it misses its not bad sportsmanship to crowdpush even in turn 8 you took the risk .... if you foul during the match and i decide its best for my gameplan to delay the retaliation until turn 8 its not badsportman ship to turn 8 foul....
-Buur |
In most games, the match hasn't been decided by turn8. So I agree with you that it's not bad sport to foul or crowd on t8.  |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 17:23 |
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In my eyes there are only a couple of things you can do to annoy me.
1) Hire a star after agreeing a matchup.
2) Insult me in game.
3) Turn16 fouls. But this isnt as bad.
The rest is all legal and fine, and as long as theres a valid point for it, I dont see any reason against it. |
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Pau
Joined: Jan 12, 2005
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Jul 21, 2005 - 17:41 |
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I don't see how hiring a star without telling you is unsportman like. If he/she has the money you should expect it like you would expect a crowdpush if you have a player on the sidelines. |
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Tymless
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 17:53 |
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What is unsportsmanlike is simply what you wouldn't want done to you. So its all on your opinion. Say for example stalling it seems many dont like. I dont mind stalling. But if your opponent is stalling when its 11 guys vs your no longer quite so good 3 man elf team then thats might be considered unsportsmanlike. Basically, I think it comes down to whats fun or doing something just cause your opponent can't stop you. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 18:00 |
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I'll often explain my actions, if they are things that annoy folks. Crowd-pushing I never have, but stalling, I've said things like, "Pardon the stall, but your KO box is too crowded". Ultimately I'm most upset by people insulting me. A fellow I had some early luck against wrote, "I hate losing to worse coaches due to luck".... I was thinking.."Buddy, you've played 4 turns against me, how do you know that I'm a worse coach?" That's about the only un-sportsman-like thing I remember.... ever. |
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When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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xen7ric
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
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Jul 21, 2005 - 18:20 |
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| thesquig wrote: | In my eyes there are only a couple of things you can do to annoy me.
1) Hire a star after agreeing a matchup.
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Good tactics I'd have thought? Why is using the cash your opponent SHOULD know you have to help you win bad sportsmanship.
It's only rude if you make the other person host look at there team to see if they've done similar and THEN do it... Then it's given you a choice denied you opponent. I always host if I'm buying a star, I just never tell my opponent... (course, I've only done it in Stunty...)
Stalling, you should expect. Crowd pushes ditto (don't puth the player there). Bad language and whining about luck... They're the bad sportsmanship and they make for a dull game for your opponent. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 18:27 |
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| Pau wrote: | | I don't see how hiring a star without telling you is unsportman like. If he/she has the money you should expect it like you would expect a crowdpush if you have a player on the sidelines. |
I see your point, and actually I always check to see how much cash someone has. I will ask what they intend to do with the money and if they lie to me, then I wont play them again.
My point is, if you're going to hire a star why trick someone into it? Have you something to hide? Do you think you wont win the game without the star? Often an even matchup will be spoiled with someone hiring a star.
Your point is very valid, you should check money and I usually do. However, it just seems a little dishonest to hire a star when your opponent expected an even matchup. Depends whether you see the game as 'win at all costs and do anything to do so' or 'winning would be great but as long as both coaches have alot of fun, it doesnt matter'.
My 2 cents on the issue. |
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Nuffle Sucks!!!
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Jul 21, 2005 - 18:35 |
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| thesquig wrote: |
1) Hire a star after agreeing a matchup.
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Hmmm...what xen7ric said sticks pretty well to the LRB - you hire a star but give the opponent the chance to as well. I mean, if you've got cash how would you know it you even want to hire a star until the match has been agreed on and the opposing team decided? Isn't that why it is part of the 'pre-game sequence?'
Consider three things:
1) you knew he had a bunch of cash, so what did you expect. This falls under the same umbrella as leaving no-one in the backfield then getting punted against: you should have realized the risks…But:
2) the opponent really ought to tell you before you join the game, so that you have a chance as well (as you would in table top) BUT:
3) if you use this as an excuse not to play (sadly yet unavoidably allowable by Fumbbl rules) realize that you are, in essence, cheating, as in Table Top you would have to put up with it as you'd already agreed to the match...
*disclaimer - this is all just the way I see it |
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