Korenn
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
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  Posted:
Sep 28, 2005 - 14:14 |
 
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hey all,
I've some experience at playing the game, mostly from our table top league, but I played a bashing team there, and what I really want to learn is how to play with the ball.
now experience with ball playing I can get by playing, but I still have a hard time starting with elves...
what is the best strategy to start off with an elven team? only lineman and rerolls? is it a good idea to start with an apot? or should I start off with some positionals? and what should the team's strategy be in the beginning? |
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xlars
Joined: May 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 28, 2005 - 14:18 |
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Mr_QB
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 28, 2005 - 14:18 |
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start off with a miniimum off 2 rr's both the apo and the positionals can mostly wait tilll later. which race of elves are you considering using???
imo you definetly don't need a thrower to begin with as your lineelfs will do the job resonably fine and are cheaper leaving more cash for a high starting ff (7-9) and room for other purchases
here is a link that shows a lot of starting lineups for all races
http://fumbbl.com/help:RaceStrategy |
_________________
Nuffle should have stayed in his cursed mother's womb, she should have had pity on our lost souls and killed nuffle while she still had the chance. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 28, 2005 - 14:31 |
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I'd take 3 rerolls at least and a few positionals.
Something like 3 RR, 7 Linemen, 2 blitzer, 2 catcher, 1 FF. I think that's what I started out with. However, since a lot of people are reluctant to play low FF teams, for fumbbl, it might be better to reduce the positionals and buy more FF instead. Perhaps exchaning a blitzer for a lineman and buying 5 more FF would be good.
As for playing: AV7 breaks easily, so the key to winning is dodging away when you're outgunned and to strike where you've got the upper hand. Ideally you'd not expose yourself to blocks and just let the opponent get that one blitz each turn. |
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Korenn
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
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Sep 28, 2005 - 14:40 |
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as for which race, I've started a pro elves team, but they're having some trouble getting on a roll, although that might be my lack of skill. (or maybe starting with 11 linemen, 4 RR and an apot simply doesn't work...)
xlars: I've read those, and while they are good articles that describe general elf strategy and some possible lineups, they don't give any hints on how to play when you're just starting off with a fresh team.
Optihut:
how can you start out with 1 FF? Pro Elves have av7, so how do you buy replacements then? |
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SolomonKane
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
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Sep 29, 2005 - 05:42 |
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With elves, you don't really need 4 RRs, and if you start with that many you won't have enough money to buy decent players. Elves are lucky enough to be generally very able in all tasks regarding ballhandling, and that's a good majority of the use of team RRs. Therefore, they don't NEED to start with as many RRs as most starting teams - though if you can start with 3 RRs and be comfortable with having mostly linemen, go for it. If you feel you'd really like to start with positionals, understand that you're likely going to only have 1 RR (bad idea usually) or at most 2 team RRs to start with. IMO, this means you should get some positional players with RR skills - Sure Hands, Catch, Pass, Dodge, and the like. I started my high elf team with a Phoenix Warrior, 3 Lions, and 7 linemen, which gave me 2 RRs and 6 FF. While I admit the FF is a gamble, I haven't been disappointed with the results. If I were to restart the team, though, I'd probably drop 1 Lion for another liner and 2 more FF (for a total of 8 ). The 2 RRs haven't really been a problem - AS LONG AS I've been careful to observe the 'correct' move order of my units, safe moves first, then high percentage plays, etc. I now have 3 RRs and most of the positionals I need to make my team go, though I certainly take my lumps.
Understand, too, that you may just have to suffer using niggled players and the like early in your team's career, and you won't find it easy to fill your roster all that quickly since elves are so pricey. If you play them correctly, though, you shouldn't suffer SO much damage that you can't recover. Just remember to use that agility and dodge from nasty hitters and concentrate your blocks on the ball carrier and his bodyguards, or on keeping the cage from advancing very far. |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 29, 2005 - 05:54 |
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| Korenn wrote: | as for which race, I've started a pro elves team, but they're having some trouble getting on a roll, although that might be my lack of skill. (or maybe starting with 11 linemen, 4 RR and an apot simply doesn't work...)
xlars: I've read those, and while they are good articles that describe general elf strategy and some possible lineups, they don't give any hints on how to play when you're just starting off with a fresh team.
Optihut:
how can you start out with 1 FF? Pro Elves have av7, so how do you buy replacements then? |
Pro elf team starting with 4rr's is great. You can do allmost anything right from the start, and you wont be needing much more ever again. I won my 5 first games with such a team, so it really can work out. And all elves need high FF, startgin with FF1 is suicide, and you will have to retire the team after few games, when u get enough injuries. This affects pro/wood elves even more due their all av7 lineup. |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Sep 29, 2005 - 07:08 |
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| SolomonKane wrote: | | With elves, you don't really need 4 RRs, and if you start with that many you won't have enough money to buy decent players. Elves are lucky enough to be generally very able in all tasks regarding ballhandling, and that's a good majority of the use of team RRs. Therefore, they don't NEED to start with as many RRs as most starting teams - though if you can start with 3 RRs and be comfortable with having mostly linemen, go for it. |
Even elves need 2+ for most things they do, those 2+ rolls fail often, so you will need the rr's. And if u go with all-lino stuartup, u will need the rr's for blocks/dodges/passes/catches. Other teams start with players with rr-skills, which compensates elves ag4 (sure hands,pass,catch, etc). So on average, you can do 5 2+ rolls in turn without failing, but there are many turns u want to do more than 5 rolls, so some of them will propably fail... |
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SolomonKane
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
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Sep 29, 2005 - 08:09 |
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True, though correct me if I'm wrong...2+ with a single roll is 83% success (5/6 possible outcomes succeed) and 3+ with a skill RR is...83% also (10/12 possible outcomes succeed)? I don't know if that means anything, but I would interpret that to mean elves can succeed with less team RRs. Of course, anytime a 2+ gets pushed up to a 3+ you lose that equality.
And, if anyone more mathematically inclined to think it through, am I accurate with my probabilities, or am I missing something? |
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Ironik
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
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Sep 29, 2005 - 08:16 |
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the composed probability is a bit more sophisticated, as it takes into account the number of dice rolled and the basic possibility underlined in ur passage solomonkane.
sk8bcn should be able to remember it better out....Hang on I have a book of math here let me have a look |
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Earl_MW
Joined: Jun 27, 2005
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Sep 29, 2005 - 09:05 |
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| SolomonKane wrote: | True, though correct me if I'm wrong...2+ with a single roll is 83% success (5/6 possible outcomes succeed) and 3+ with a skill RR is...83% also (10/12 possible outcomes succeed)? [...]
And, if anyone more mathematically inclined to think it through, am I accurate with my probabilities, or am I missing something? |
Just my 2 cents: 3+ with RR is 89% (8/9) success. 2/3 from the basic roll, and then 1/3*2/3 from the second roll.
Hmm, do elven team really need less RR? Don't think so. For bashy team it isn't a disaster to let the opponent throw some blocks against them. With high armor and/or high ST they can withstand it and even retaliate  But for elves, with their AV 7, bunch of blocks against them could be really painful.
I am relatively new on FUMBBL, but i play tabletop BB since early 90's, usually coaching dwarves. I found than dwarves doing what they should do, i.e. bashing, bashing and bashing don't need RR's so much. RR are nice for double skulls, passes, dodges (who saw passing and dodging dwarves? Me ) and other similar extras, but often i end every half of match with 1-2 RR's remaining.
So my conclusion: elven teams need RR's as much as bashing teams, even more, because they make more risky rolls.
Earl |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 29, 2005 - 09:29 |
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| Korenn wrote: | Optihut:
how can you start out with 1 FF? Pro Elves have av7, so how do you buy replacements then? |
8 more fans mean 28k more people at the gate, which is 14k more gold (mostly 10k) for winnings. You need to earn those 80k you've lost on teamcreation though, if you're counting the cheap re-rolls at the team creation, the actual figure is closer to 130k. That's 10-13 games before your high starting FF is going to pay off. Since you'll get a -1 for every full 10 FF at the end of the game on your FF increase roll, after 10-13 games your FF won't have risen all that much when you start out with 9 fans in comparison to few fans. Granted, 1 might be too few, but even if you do that, I figure after that many games your FF will be similar. When you're starting out with a stronger roster initially, you're more likely to win and your FF is more likely to increase and you'll get the +10k gold for winning more often.
For me, it always worked out quite well, for other people it did not. I guess I'm just an unconventional player (one coach insulted me for not taking dodge all that often with my elves - he still lost the game and I took down his blodgers with my tacklers.) |
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Korenn
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 29, 2005 - 09:43 |
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it sounds logical...
but having 1 (or low) FF means you'll be playing other low FF or bashy teams, since the rest won't bother... so that would increase the income hit some more...
a bit too risky for my liking |
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xlars
Joined: May 12, 2004
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Sep 29, 2005 - 09:57 |
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I most certainly will not play against a FF 1 team with any team that needs the money. (elf, skaven, and the like). Why should I allow them to leech of my FF?!? Sure you can win matches, but how about long term team development. In short turnaments it makes totally good sense with low FF, but its a gamble.
/XL |
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Smurf team in Stunty leeg! |
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Darkewolfe
Joined: Aug 17, 2005
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Oct 08, 2005 - 03:57 |
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This isn't quite in the line of the conversation, but has anyone played elves with the revised LRB? Fan factor is far less important, but money is made far, far, far slower, and I can see an elf team not even being viable, at all, considering the fact that it'd take a 2-4 games to be able to afford even a line-elf. |
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