| Poll |
| Block or Claw? (hell, or pro) |
| Block |
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77% |
[ 122 ] |
| Claw |
|
11% |
[ 18 ] |
| Pro |
|
6% |
[ 11 ] |
| Unsure but i have something to add |
|
4% |
[ 7 ] |
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| Total Votes : 158 |
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Buur
Joined: Apr 29, 2004
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 Posted:
Mar 15, 2006 - 09:29 |
 
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block to avoid turnovers ... claw.... not that important you allrdy have mb.... id tentackles before claw... hell i ill take pro before claw.
-Buur |
_________________
For most people, reason is nothing but their own believes. |
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Webbe
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2006 - 09:31 |
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| Tommi wrote: | I -guess- block increases knockdowns about 16% + avoided bothdown results maybe 4% more = 20%. That goes directly to increased cas too.
Claw increases broken armour about 16% - what you would have gotten anyway cause of MB.
So there's a slight difference in favor of block + it's more reliable.
I did the math in my head, and it may not be accurate, but Im quite sure it's still in the favor of block.
Someone chatted about 3-die blocks, but I rarely see experienced coaches go for those, unless it's clearly a won game. |
Flawed maths. Claw is obviously much much better at causing injuries. Nearly all players got block so block does only make your big guy more reliable, not more hurty (unless it's really low TR or play stunties).
RSC is even better though so I don't understand the claw choice.
btw, the skill combos mb+claw and mb+rsc is obviously underrated by many coaches. |
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Longshanks
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2006 - 10:06 |
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I have to agree with Silver - just because tentacles on a big guy is  & different. |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 15, 2006 - 21:54 |
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| Flynn wrote: | oblitzamanger
QUIT POSTING STUPID THINGS THAT YOU THINK ARE WORTH DISCUSSION WITHOUT DOING A FORUM SEARCH TO FIND THE FIVE HUNDRED THREADS WITH THE EXACT SAME NAME AS THIS ONE
this is in my opinion worse than your thread about adding dragons to divx
im more offended by you now then i mentioned in my response to your pm |
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chunky04
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 03:09 |
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I'd go for Block, and think I would get more CAS that way, simply due to throwing a hell of a lot more Blocks. Normal big guy blocking is a low priority action for me, but give him Block and it would probably increase to medium. Thats probably good for an extra 4-5 blocks per games. |
_________________
chunky - you are eloquence on legs |
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Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 04:16 |
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origami, i did a forum search, i looked around for quite a while to be honest, i couldnt find this question in this age of blood bowl (new WA, no gen access for BG)
but, dont think im peeved with you for pointing that out, i still feel that people should do extensive forum searches first, and if i had found a forum with what i was looking for i would have bumped it instead of starting my own, its just that this question is rather specific because the coach in question was looking for 2 specific things from his rat ogre
thanks for the post |
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Proud to be a professor in Wuhan's Fouling Academy
Goodbye Cusi |
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Flynn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 04:22 |
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chunky04, that was my original argument, glad to see someone agrees with me about the sheer magnitude of extra blocks you get |
_________________
Proud to be a professor in Wuhan's Fouling Academy
Goodbye Cusi |
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Vanguard
Joined: Nov 01, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 04:59 |
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tentacles
less blitzes with him but still more blocks as he dont lose tz if he goes wa
so hard to get away
so he makes more blocks
claw is better with mino as he needs only 1 assists for a 3 dice |
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dzonvejn
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 05:07 |
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I voted for 4th choice... In this very case I don't know what I would take, but hadn't the rat ogre had the mutation options I would take pro... Here's my reasoning: BGs would roll 2 dice all the time and more often than not 3 dice. So going for POW, or DODGE (can't remember the name 5 am here  ) is OK (you have a lot of chance to get it even on 2 dices not to say on 3)... So block is not MUST have (in my oppinion). On the other hand, claw is better than block. As block would only knock the opposing player down, he can stand up next round, and notting happens. But if you have claw or RSC (better claw in my oppinion) you have a looot more chance to hurt the player (which is the idea... the less players the opponent has, the easyer it will be to score, right?). In the had it been treeman or troll..... I would give him pro without thinking... it's the only way to have RR with BG after all.... which is very important, and you can have some chance to RR those damn double skulls..... So:
pro vs block: pro
claw/RSC vs block: claw
claw vs RSC: claw (in my oppinion... but I would always take 1 claw then 1 RSC in team... I wouldn't take 2 claws)
block vs claw: draw... but maybe a little bit on the side of claw |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 05:27 |
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As the resident skaven expert (self proclaimed, but justly I reckon), then the answer to the question--more cas--is claw, but the better choice, IMHO, is block. Why? Survivability. Don't worry about how many times you hit the other guy...if an RO lives long enough, he WILL get his fair share of cas. But that's the trick...living long enough. Take claw, and you hitting him will hurt more. Take block, and there will be fewer times for HIM to knock YOU down, and the fewer times you're knocked over, the less chance of getting hurt. Opponents just LOVE trying to knock over my blodge RO, and you know what? The more time they spend trying at him, the less they can focus on my gutters, who can stroll in for a score or three.
And btw, claw is WAY better on a rat ogre than rsc, b/c while rsc will marginally increase your chances of a cas, you still have to break the armor first. Claw will greatly enhance your chances of breaking armor, which in turn means more rolls against the cas table, which in turn means more cas. But it also means more stuns and ko's, which make a skaven team's life SOOOO much easier, believe you me... |
_________________
Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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DonTomaso
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 06:55 |
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I'd go Tackle!
If you play softies they'll try to avoid you more than block you. With the tail, and their dodge disabled, they'll burn RR like there is no tomorrow... |
_________________
====================================
Be careful, my common sense is tingling! |
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bampf
Joined: Nov 06, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 20:14 |
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Since I was coach that began this discussion with Flynn I had my roomate (who is an accountant by schooling and trade) run the numbers. Claw will indeed cause more casaulties than Block (I have the exact figures at home and I m at work now) when compared straight up. Obviously, he ll also cause more Turnovers as well, but again, I feel that can be managed to a degree via gameplay, and typically I m happy with a both down result as Claw/MB combo means he has vastly greater chance of being better off than the guy who goes down with him.
If his claw draws hatred (in the form of ganging up on him or fouling), then I m OK with that as well... better him than my GRs!
Interesting point about Claws scaring off opponents. I m new to the FUMBBL community. I m used to tourneys and leagues with fixed schedules so there s never a choice about who or what you play. For that reason (and as a point if honor and sportsmanship), so far I haven t refused any challenges based on fear (the battered state of my Pro Elf and Skink team can attest to that), I m interested to see if I have trouble getting games with that team now. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 20:20 |
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What skill would/will you give hiim without doubles? Most coaches would choose Guard. Guard needs him standing, Block keeps him standing. That's all there is to say! |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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origami
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 23:27 |
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Nah, that quote was more in the "Everybody does does stuff that can annoy other people, so just cut 'em some slack" vein of thinking. I've been around the fumbbl community for a long time, and I rarely see a topic in the tactics and strategy section that hasn't been discussed before. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, and answered, a "My x has rolled doubles. What skill should I get?"
It doesn't bother me, though. If I'm bored with those kinds of questions, then I skip the topic. However, thinking can change, as can some of the rules - as you pointed out. Sometimes I'm the mood to contribute - though less often these days. I usually leave it to those who have recently figured out the answer and are more interested in mentoring those new to the game.
More importantly, those kinds of questions usually get asked by people who are new the site and to the game. If they are encouraged, then they will continue playing and become more experienced. If they are treated rudely, then they are more likely to leave. From the standpoint of pure self interest, it's best to encourage more people to play - giving you a better selection of opponents.
Back on topic, AFK is exactly right. The point of a rat ogre isn't to make a bunch of cas by pounding your opponents into the ground. He's there to take the heat off of your more vulnerable (and more important) players. He's also good against elves, as that prehensile tail will give 'em fits. I'd pick either block or pro given this choice, but what I'd really do is ditch the rat ogre. I've never felt that RO contributed particularly much to a skaven team.
Unfortunately, with WA and relatively low AV, rat ogres just aren't very reliable and don't survive all that well (especially against bashers). I've also found that an experienced opponent will neutralize them pretty easily. This can be done either by just avoiding the RO, or tying it down with a single lineman (orcs linos do this wonderfully).
Some experienced skaven coaches might disagree. I think AFK, in particular, has a more positive view of RO which he might be willing to share. |
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Kamahl
Joined: Oct 24, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2006 - 23:37 |
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Keep in mind that block on a big guy will protect him from 2d block against that a player with the skill can throw against him in a pinch.
Also makes him much more reliable.
I tend to leave big boy for the end of the turn anyhow, unless in a special circumstances. Going CAS hunting with him is not the best game plan. |
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