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Plorg



Joined: May 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I've noticed some coaches asking this question when they roll 12 on skills.
This should be considered a rhetorical question with a default answer of "yes".
Just so you all know.
That said, this question need never be asked again.

Edit: Very Happy
After a month of discussion, here is a summary of the thread so far...

--- Reasons to take +ST: ---

You get more dice when making a Block.
This is obvious.

Your opponent gets fewer dice (or needs more assists) when Blocking you.
This is a passive defense that makes your opponent either make fewer blocks against the +ST (keeping your +ST alive longer),
or commit more resources to knocking down your +ST (keeping the rest of your team alive longer).

Stat increases can cause your opponent to miscount when blocking you and burn rerolls.
Subtle but true. This is less effective against experienced coaches.

You are a Big Guy with Break Tackle.
AG6 Dodge into a cage with a ST6 Blitz... Heh.

You have Tentacles.
+ST makes them better.

+ST is cool.
This is not up for debate.

Nuffle will be mad at you if you don't take +ST.
This also is not up for debate.


--- Reasons NOT to take +ST: ---

You prefer Block on your Big Guy.
The calculations of a 2dice with Block vs a 3dice without Block make this a questionable choice:
sk8bcn wrote:
I d also add this about 3 dices blocks. 1/27 = 3,7% so really low.

However vs a standard player with block:
knock him down=5/9 at 2dices+b=55.5%
knock him down=19/27 at 3dices=70.3%

vs a blodger
2d+b=>11/36=30.5%
3d=>57.9%

vs a skillless player:
2d+b=>3/4=75%
3d=>70.3%

chances to fall alone
3d=>3.7%
2d+b=>2.7%

well then it is debatable how many 3dices blocks you will have overall. But by comparison only of 3dices vs 2dices+block, my choice is very easy:

3 DICES


You prefer Block/Pro on your Ball&Chain (or Stunty equivalent).
This makes some sense for Ball&Chain players that have to move first, have high ST already, and cause turnovers/eat rerolls naturally.

You are a Dauntless Gutter Runner.
This is a very specific case with implications about your playing style and long term plan for that player.
Plorg agrees that this is one of the very very few situations where a mutation might be a better choice than +ST.

You aged/injured -ST already.
In this situation, Dauntless is a popular choice.
Retirement is also a popular choice.

You prefer Pass on your Big Guy because your name is Gary_Gygax.
Big Guy or Stunty teams that specialize in TTM are a special case for a special kind of coach. Very Happy


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I take +ST?
Should I take +AG?
Should I take +MA?


Last edited by Plorg on Sep 27, 2008 - 02:31; edited 6 times in total
Meech



Joined: Sep 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top

What if they have +str +str already? Neener Neener Razz

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Plorg



Joined: May 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:51 Reply with quote Back to top

In that situation, they don't get the option to take +ST and the point is mootified.
Oli_B



Joined: Apr 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Then i suggest they still try and take the third. You never know. Nuffle might approve.
vanGorn



Joined: Feb 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, cheater fanatics and pump wagons, need the double more than additional strength. I would prefer to take block or pro.

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Meech



Joined: Sep 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Apr 26, 2006 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

No making up words!
What if it is a treeman with +str already? What does a treeman need 8str for? Wouldn't block be better? Or Sure Feet? Or Sure Hands?

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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005
AFK_Eagle



Joined: Mar 12, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 05:04 Reply with quote Back to top

My most famous gutter ever gave up +str in favor of using the double...ofc, he already had dauntless/horns/claw, so giving him rsc just seemed more fitting than the +str...

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Laviak



Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 05:29 Reply with quote Back to top

The correct answer is "No, you should take Dirty Player".

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Flynn



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 06:33 Reply with quote Back to top

eagle, that gutter needs multi

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sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 10:17 Reply with quote Back to top

AFK_Eagle wrote:
My most famous gutter ever gave up +str in favor of using the double...ofc, he already had dauntless/horns/claw, so giving him rsc just seemed more fitting than the +str...


I would have taken +str :p

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Optihut



Joined: Dec 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 11:42 Reply with quote Back to top

On a big guy it is a tough decision - personally I would pick BLOCK instead of +ST on an ST 5 big guy.
spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 11:44 Reply with quote Back to top

In an Ogre team ST6 is usually not neccessary at all.

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sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 11:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I don't agree. He can get another TZ more without beeing hit at 2 dices.
soaks
str5 = 1str 3 + 2 helps
str6=1str3+3helps

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Optihut



Joined: Dec 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 15:03 Reply with quote Back to top

sk8bcn wrote:
I don't agree. He can get another TZ more without beeing hit at 2 dices.
soaks
str5 = 1str 3 + 2 helps
str6=1str3+3helps


Sure, if the Ogre is just there to soak up damage, then that's a good point, but mostly I like to actively block with my players. Without the block skill he's 4 times as likely to fail as an Ogre with the block skills (under the assumption of a 2 die block in my favour).
deathgerbil



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Apr 27, 2006 - 15:15 Reply with quote Back to top

big guys with +str are just nasty for break tackle reasons. usually the only reason people have big guys on their team is to soak up players, and a troll with str6 or more is just evil. for all str 3 players, it take 5 guys to take down a str6 player 2d block. You can usually afford to take down a big guy on your own at least once each drive by just clustering around him, and applying a boot. With str6 or more, you simply have too many people out of position to really recover effectively. Plus, to break tackle into a cage, i THINK its a 3+ roll, and you can still 2d hit the guy in the center on your own. My old troll, Cuddly, was str7, and went into cages on a 2+ Smile
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