Posted by Keith-Lemon on 2011-03-31 22:53:21

Should of been perma banned i say.

Posted by f_alk on 2011-03-31 22:57:07

who's the emo now?

Posted by Frankenstein on 2011-03-31 23:05:20

The guys allegedly insulted (I wonder if they felt like that in the first place) would neither be able to read nor comprehend his apology anyway.

Posted by DonTomaso on 2011-03-31 23:21:30

I didn't sense the apology, though...

Although I think it was way too harsh...

Posted by Skolopender on 2011-03-31 23:30:50

Political Correctness will be the damnation of humanity.

Posted by Prinz on 2011-03-31 23:37:17

Add another month.

Posted by spubbbba on 2011-03-31 23:38:00

Is this not an hour and 10 mins early?

Posted by pythrr on 2011-03-31 23:42:18

does this mean i don't get to be in the new "emos and downz babies" team?

WHAT????? Pythrr-Hulk smash!

Posted by Postie on 2011-03-31 23:43:54

You havent figured out people are absolute rule nazi's here with no common sense?.....You're a bit daft than mate.

Posted by KenThis on 2011-03-31 23:44:58

Just wanted to point out that the land of fumbbl is not a democracy.
Christer may be the most benign despot ever but he still dictates the laws around here.
He also selects his admin staff to enforce those rules.
He has to weigh up individual freedoms against community good.
He run's fumbbl with the deftest of touches and I for one am grateful he does it so well.
I am all for debate and discussion and the amazing diversity on views on fumbbl is awesome considering how well it runs.
However when Christer/Admins decide something, when the decision has been taken, we have to remember we are guests in Fumbbl. We have to remember that Christer and the admins and others volunteer their time to help make this place the popular site it is.
We have to remember that this is not a democracy and that we have no rights in the traditional sense, if we want to continue playing here we have to do what they want us to.
If we don't like that then we always have a choice to go find something else to do with our time.
But if we want to stay we should at least respect Christer and admins and the rules even if they go against personal ethics or codes of conduct.
Because Fumbbl is Christer's domain even Nuffle has to ask permission to come play.

Posted by Woodstock on 2011-03-31 23:55:39

Funny people think this is real....

Posted by Chewie on 2011-03-31 23:58:43

Too early.

FALE

Posted by DukeTyrion on 2011-03-31 23:59:11

Certainly early for the UK, but I guess other parts of the world might already be there.

Posted by pythrr on 2011-03-31 23:59:28

but we loves him anyway.

Posted by JoeMalik on 2011-04-01 00:11:28

@ Frankenstein: Actualy, a lot of people with Down Syndrome learn to read.
Not to mention that they often have good receptive language skills.
Its interesting to see how well people with down syndrome (well, obviously not all) can live (mostly) on their own.

Posted by Prinz on 2011-04-01 00:24:15

@JoeMalik: I do believe he was referring to the "offended" people. Not people who actually have down's syndrome.

Posted by Fela on 2011-04-01 01:14:52

@Prinz: I'm pretty sure he was referring to people with DS (in a very condescending way i might add). And even if he WERE right, that would be all the more reason for our (or any, actually) community to step in.

@Woodstock: if it's not real, the question remains, WHY?

Posted by Reisender on 2011-04-01 01:30:43

"Posted by Skolopender on 2011-03-31 23:30:50
Political Correctness will be the damnation of humanity."

People who call everything Political Correctness as an excuse not to argue for or against sth. ARE the downfall of humanity (well some of them, at least).

Posted by PainState on 2011-04-01 01:30:48

So Woodstock had you on double secreat probation huh?

Posted by Tomay on 2011-04-01 02:25:49

Good, hope you don't come back!

Posted by Jeffro on 2011-04-01 02:30:00

Dammit... Is it April first in China?!? No fair speeding up time, Richard-breath... NOW you deserve the ban.

:P

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-01 03:40:21

@reisender: people who insist on deciding for others how they should speak or what words they choose to use, is more insulting than anything

Posted by Cavetroll on 2011-04-01 06:55:41

Too bad this is only a joke.

Posted by koadah on 2011-04-01 07:34:55

So Shadow, what happened to my post?

Posted by Purplegoo on 2011-04-01 09:24:47

I don't get the joke, and find it in poor taste, maybe because I'm not on the inside. I did find the April Fool funny though. ;)

Posted by Grod on 2011-04-01 10:41:14

"Posted by Skolopender on 2011-03-31 23:30:50
Political Correctness will be the damnation of humanity."

"Posted by Reisender on 2011-04-01 01:30:43
People who call everything Political Correctness as an excuse not to argue for or against sth. ARE the downfall of humanity (well some of them, at least)."

Both are very simplistic statements that do not stand up in the real world in such a general sense.

For example, "Politically Correctness" can lead to Police and Court judges not mentioning the race of people involved in a crime, even if race was a factor in the crime (this happens in Australia a lot). This makes it difficult to address the real underlying cause of the crime.

But allowing blatant racist or sexist behavior to exist without moderation can and does in fact alienate minority groups and those with less powerful positions in society. Even if we are only talking about comments, it can easily become a form of intimidation.

Posted by fabik on 2011-04-01 11:22:53

Nice Joke... Hope you have a Down son and then we will restart the discussion

Posted by Grod on 2011-04-01 11:48:43

Yes it is very tasteless. I assume lizvis has not had a child before, so doesn't understand the anxiety parents go through with all the testing etc during pregnancy, not to mention the families that do have complications.

Posted by SillySod on 2011-04-01 12:14:16

Pity about the date...

I dont think anyone wants an appology, they just want you to stop doing it.

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-01 12:49:37

sad that the admins have consistently got this one so wrong...

Posted by Chrome_ghoul on 2011-04-01 13:39:19

It's a good April fool. But your "joke" is at best insensitive and crass.

Posted by t0tem on 2011-04-01 19:45:57

You are a tragic, tragic little man

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2011-04-01 22:50:09

I find it funny that people that have been banned can post stuff in their blog. Buy a clue people... for srsly. Dumb hats! :D

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-01 23:35:42

I dont see anyone who thinks this was a genuine ban or genuine conversation, just a lot of people who continue to find this whole thing an embarrassment to Fumbbl....
"Hey come to Fumbbl its great the clients amazing and we're so cool we get to take the piss out of disabled people and thats fine, come join the fun!"

Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2011-04-01 23:42:57

Yes, and people get to whine about it too. It's great! :D

Posted by pythrr on 2011-04-02 01:12:52

loves u fouly

Posted by pythrr on 2011-04-02 01:13:38

and blocknroll - if we (or fumbbl) banned EVERYTHING that ANYONE found somewhat offensive, there would be nothing and no one here

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-02 01:27:21

yes because lizvis is the face of fumbbl...

jesus christ you people need to get over yourself...

Posted by koadah on 2011-04-02 03:17:44

Says the guy who decides what people can say and what they can't say.

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-02 04:03:16

think whatever you want, koadah, but there is a big difference between you throwing racial slurs across a blog post, and someone using the word "downs"....

the site has strict rules against racial slurs...while "offensive" talk is purely subjective...we're not going to start banning people just because a handful of people are offended by something...

but we will be more than happy to if you insist on throwing out racial slurs to further some sort of misplaced sense of morals and ethics...

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-02 11:14:14

Read your own rules: Offensive language - including but not limited to racism, sexual harassment and religious persecution - is not allowed in any form.
I dont see a subclause - "Apart from mocking people wiht disabilities, as that's just funny and only a "word" "

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-02 11:36:07

that may be true...but what you find offensive, is not what fumbbl as a whole finds offensive....

stop enforcing your morals on everyone else...i'm a grown man, and can choose for myself what i find to be offensive...

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-02 11:56:30

I'm not enforcing any morals on anyone, someone is enforcing their prejudices on everyone else though. It should be self-evident from the lengths you have to go to justify this that maybe just maybe you (collectively) have got this wrong. The Freedom of Speech argument holds no water here at all for so many obvious reasons.... And the role of the rulemakers in any society (and id class people on admin type roles here as being the rulemakers in this example) is not to simply uphold their own standards, but to aim for the very best possible standards for their society. Hence your own subjective feelings on any particular topic are of lesser importance than you collectively taking a view about what kind of conduct is or is not appropriate in general, and to effectively be the voice of common-sense (in the literal meaning of that phrase).
It's good though that somehow you can speak for the whole of fumbbl on whether they find mocking disabled people offensive.... Maybe you should start a poll to see what people actually think about this?
The question would have to be fairly general so I'd suggest: "Is it ok to mock disabled people?" Oh and as a grown man, how would you be treated at work if you decided to mock a disabled colleague? I suspect you'd be fired for gross misconduct.

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-02 12:17:17

and this is what you don't grasp...

racial slurs, religious slander, etc etc...these are things that are very explicitly called out in the rules....anything outside of that is a grey area....and we need to rule it as such...

we, as admins, don't create the rules...we only enforce them as we see best for the site...we are given guidelines, and we have to make a best judgement call from there...

no matter what decision we make, *SOMEONE* is not going to like it...that's the problem with being in this position...damned if you do, damned if you don't...

i'm sorry that you happen to be the person that doesn't like it....i'm sure soon enough you'll get over it, and move on to the next shiny argument...

it's good, though, that somehow you can speak for the whole of fumbbl on whether or not they find mocking disabled people offensive....maybe you should start a poll to see what people actually think about this?....see how that goes both ways?...the whole of fumbbl doesn't think your way, or my way, for that matter....so again, the point still stands...what you find offensive, is not what fumbbl as a whole finds offensive....nor is what i find offensive, what lizvis finds offensive, what disabled people feels is offensive....

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-02 12:23:45

I think you misunderstand - Here's the rule again: Offensive language - including but not limited to racism, sexual harassment and religious persecution - is not allowed in any form.

you see the bit where it says including but not limited to? So those are examples, not the start and stop points...
And as someone with the reputation you have for shiny arguments should understand this is not that type of topic...
It's fairly obvious that you will get things wrong and will get things right, but to allow the mocking of disabled people as being whats best for the site? Really?? One of the issues here is that collectively the admins are being called out again and again for getting this one wrong but don't have the guts to admit it, leading to massive loss of respect all round. I don't know maybe Christer said to you all that it's fine to mock disabled people....If so I'd like to hear that from him please. And then there's the belittling "you happen to be THE person (emphasis added by me) that doesn't like it" well thats just not true is it....

Posted by koadah on 2011-04-02 12:35:40

What do you mean racial 'slur' Shadow? Maybe you should define slur. Context is everything. ;)

A line out of an old Eddie Murphy joke? Don't you find it funny? I thought your little gang liked a bit of banter.

The only thing offensive about it is that it is still funny after all these years. Unless of course you figure it is referring to you.

So speaking as both a [censored at admin request] and a "retard" but not a "d0wns" I'll say that I find all three words just as offensive.

I do find it funny that you get your knickers in a twist over one word but not others that someone affected is likely to find even more offensive.

But hey, it's only a minority of people on Fumbbl and pissing on minorities is what made the world great after all.

Maybe we need a poll to see if it really is a minority.

Edir: And no, I didn't ever think it referred to you but did you take it on to yourself?

Posted by Calcium on 2011-04-02 12:47:03

Damn it's been difficult to stay out of this argument, so I have decided to link some of the issues raised here to

http://www.downs-syndrome.org.uk/contact-us.html

lets see what an association that has extensive knowledge in Down's Syndrome makes of this. In my email I have encouraged them to join our wonderfull community and maybe even partake in a game of blood bowl! If an association like this see's no harm in the teams/blogs/chat that has been circulating here then I will happily drop this and not say another word about it.

I have heard the counter arguments of shadow/foulscumm/pythrr and although I absolutely disagree with their point of view, I respect their stance. What I don't respect is that Lizvis is doing this for no other reason than to create heat in FUMBBL. And he is being supported by some admins.

This is so not about 'PC gone mad' people. The rules of FUMBBL are the same as the rules we adhere to in general. I wonder how this kind of behaviour would be dealt with in general? In your workplace? In a public enviroment?

Now I have got involved AGAIN feel free to mock me at your leisure. Unlike the group some coaches here continue to mock/attack, I am more than capable of defending myself....

Posted by shadow46x2 on 2011-04-02 12:48:44

you know exactly what was said...context isn't everything....you and i both know it was a racial slur, no matter what the intentions....

it's humorous how somehow i "got my knickers in a twist" because i asked you to keep the racial slurs off of the site....but hey, you know if you want to keep trolling, and keep throwing them out, i'll be more than happy to enforce the rules, since apparently you people are so hardup for people to get banned...

Posted by blocknroll on 2011-04-02 12:56:34

Is making fun of disabled people really the same as fat jokes or your mom jokes?


Two points I'll reiterate: If you mocked a disabled person at your work what would happen?
And can Christer confirm if its ok to mock disabled people here?


And you know i thought you WERE in the business of censorship and at times thats exactly what you should be doing. Threads get locked, profanities removed, players and teams renamed, pictures of young ladies in bikinis removed. Society censors as needed, we self-censor as needed. Freedom of Speech is accepted to have limitations in every single society. And censorship is a tool that can be and often is used for the good of any society. I trust you (collectively) not to use censorship to subjugate a nation, to oppress an ethnic group, to perpetrate an act of political propaganda. That's not what we're talking about though is it.


edit- oh you just used my favourite shadowism "you people" :)
I for one am not calling for anyone to be banned by the way.

Posted by t0tem on 2011-04-02 17:59:53

Of course Christer condones it, otherwise it would stop.

Posted by madbone on 2011-04-02 18:57:16

It's old lizvis. You plague gamechat or irc with your 3 to 4 stock reaction-inducing insults which in the end loses more players from the game and community. Much as the intent of this.
You are base and without a hint of irony, lower than everything you deride.

Posted by DustBunny on 2011-04-07 02:02:14

Being fat is a disability to some.