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2015-12-12 02:16:54
11 votes, rating 2.4
11 votes, rating 2.4
Claw and AV
Claw: is a Mutation skill, any armor roll of 8 or more after modifications automatically penetrates armor.
I think is better:
Claw: Decrease any armor roll of 8 or more the AV (-1) if you have AV 10 for example decrease to 9.
When a skill reduces all types armour to 7 i think is very unfair for example: Treeman vs 2 linemans and Snow Troll if you POW the treeman and reduces the AV for 7 is a crazy skill beacuse you can try to Kill/Ko/Take injure vs AV 10!
I think is better:
Claw: Decrease any armor roll of 8 or more the AV (-1) if you have AV 10 for example decrease to 9.
When a skill reduces all types armour to 7 i think is very unfair for example: Treeman vs 2 linemans and Snow Troll if you POW the treeman and reduces the AV for 7 is a crazy skill beacuse you can try to Kill/Ko/Take injure vs AV 10!
Comments
Posted by harvestmouse on 2015-12-12 02:32:07
https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=662665&highlight=#662665
Posted by awambawamb on 2015-12-12 02:59:14
the club is over there (poins to the forum)
Posted by Antithesisoftime on 2015-12-12 03:37:21
The problem isn't claw.
The problem is when it's combined with Mighty Blow and Piling On.
Even then, Fend stops Piling, and so does a good fouler
The problem is when it's combined with Mighty Blow and Piling On.
Even then, Fend stops Piling, and so does a good fouler
Posted by huff on 2015-12-12 03:43:31
Damn... With this kinda Claw and combined with Mighty Blow, you are looking at 5AV elves and other guys with a base 7... Don't know if I'm a fan of that.
Posted by PainState on 2015-12-12 03:44:22
Claw is fine.
The issue is plus AV does not counter claw.
The issue is plus AV does not counter claw.
Posted by Antithesisoftime on 2015-12-12 03:50:32
seems the best solution is that +AV is applied after claw when making a block
Posted by pythrr on 2015-12-12 04:16:00
so like a crapyy version of MB. half MB.
well, sign me up, skippy
well, sign me up, skippy
Posted by pythrr on 2015-12-12 04:17:07
and as said, claw is fine
just remove PO
and make mutations a double again
and all is well
just remove PO
and make mutations a double again
and all is well
Posted by buuface on 2015-12-12 04:40:49
allowing only 2 out of 3 of the kill skills would solve it.
Posted by Jeffro on 2015-12-12 04:50:49
Best defense against Claw?!?... AV7.
Posted by NerdBird on 2015-12-12 04:58:26
I am all for having it be +1 to armor but not stackable with MB. I also say leave PO alone and just fix fouling to be effective again.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2015-12-12 07:08:24
Best Defence against Claw? Having Claw and receiving Kick turn 1
Posted by frogboy on 2015-12-12 11:57:53
So with these nerfs no one would play Norse or Chaos? Dwarfs Orcs would not really need to be careful about positioning well they would but there wouldn't be much fear there. I think nerfing the game is stupid, already it benifits the elf sides, so you loose a treeman chances are you will still win if playing Wood Elves, buy a new one or protect it better.
Teams with access to Claw need to remove players to win, it's part of the game!
Teams with access to Claw need to remove players to win, it's part of the game!
Posted by Dalfort on 2015-12-12 12:16:13
Mutations are gifts from the Chaos gods... make them random again.
Posted by frogboy on 2015-12-12 13:25:46
Your talking about changing the rules of the game, which effects more than just FUMBBL. You can't have that discussion without understand that. FUMBBL is essentially a BloodBowl simulator, so a copy of the rules from the board game. Depending on how you veiw that good or bad that means some rediulous team/player builds are possible which would never be possible in a standard table top format as you would never be able to play enough games to develop them. (i'm sure there are people out there who have do this but it must be rare). So FUMBBL is like extreme BloodBowl, Claw is a part of that, players die it's part of the game, some coaches prefere bashy teams others prefere halflings etc
FYI I think FUMBBL is great, I love BloodBowl, messing around with the rules though is dangerous and impossible to agree on almost as too many people play it is different formats, good thing is though that people still play it ;)
FYI I think FUMBBL is great, I love BloodBowl, messing around with the rules though is dangerous and impossible to agree on almost as too many people play it is different formats, good thing is though that people still play it ;)
Posted by MattDakka on 2015-12-12 13:36:23
"and as said, claw is fine
just remove PO
and make mutations a double again"
This.
Alternatively, Piling On only for Big Guys.
just remove PO
and make mutations a double again"
This.
Alternatively, Piling On only for Big Guys.
Posted by frogboy on 2015-12-12 13:43:56
So change the rules to suit you then lol
Posted by Wreckage on 2015-12-12 13:51:00
Dude, you haven't been around long enough to understand why claw is the way it is now. Claw used to be +2 on av. It was changed because that was NOT a good idea.
Posted by koadah on 2015-12-12 13:55:34
Claw should me a maximum of -2. AV10 should go to 8 not 7.
don't really give a monkey's about people playing other forms of blood bowl. ;)
I'd add
Fouling +1 to armour roll.
Claw does not stack with other skills that modify armour rolls.
Piling On allows coach to reroll injury only.
But you knew that :)
don't really give a monkey's about people playing other forms of blood bowl. ;)
I'd add
Fouling +1 to armour roll.
Claw does not stack with other skills that modify armour rolls.
Piling On allows coach to reroll injury only.
But you knew that :)
Posted by frogboy on 2015-12-12 13:58:42
Ok sorry I had an opinion, I'll leave the rules discussion to the big boys then (sarcasm).
Posted by Uedder on 2015-12-12 14:11:31
Nerfing PO nerfs a lot of races, basically all the S access teams who don't have M access. Humans and Undead, but also orcs and dorfs, Lizardmen and Slann, will someone think about the Slann?
That said, a minor nerf to PO (not removing it, but maybe no claw/mb on the pile on? There's lots of options which have been pointed out throught he years).
Nerfing the mutation access is the way to go imo.
That said, a minor nerf to PO (not removing it, but maybe no claw/mb on the pile on? There's lots of options which have been pointed out throught he years).
Nerfing the mutation access is the way to go imo.
Posted by seanh1986 on 2015-12-12 15:44:32
My fix would be:
- Claw reduces armor by 2 to a minimum of 7 (prior to and after any +/- Av).
The +/- Av is in place so that if you had 8 av, but got a +1 Av (to 9 av), with claw you'd be at 9 - 2 + 1 = 8 av. However, if you were at 8 av but then lost an av (to 7 av) then gained an av (to 8 av) with claw you'd be at 8 - 2 --> 7 + 1 = 8, which is not fair, so instead you'd be at 8 - 2 --> 7 + 1 - 1 = 7.
- Claw reduces armor by 2 to a minimum of 7 (prior to and after any +/- Av).
The +/- Av is in place so that if you had 8 av, but got a +1 Av (to 9 av), with claw you'd be at 9 - 2 + 1 = 8 av. However, if you were at 8 av but then lost an av (to 7 av) then gained an av (to 8 av) with claw you'd be at 8 - 2 --> 7 + 1 = 8, which is not fair, so instead you'd be at 8 - 2 --> 7 + 1 - 1 = 7.
Posted by DeathJester74 on 2015-12-12 15:50:06
How are people STILL talking about this?? Move on and find a new topic to whine about already.
Posted by awambawamb on 2015-12-12 15:51:47
what about the RNG?
Posted by Wizfall on 2015-12-12 16:04:40
I don't want to nef MB/PO combo because...elves.
I don't want to nerf MB/Claw because...lizards, orcs, dwarves.
I would however nerf the Claw/PO combo that is too efficient against AV9 players by not allowing the claw modifier for the PO rolls only.
I would also make Big Guy immune to claw because most are bad enough and that will make them unique, especially comparatively to any ST4 +1ST player or even ST3 +2ST that make them look like garbage.
Finally i would allow the +1AV skill rolls to ignore claw (so a +1AV players against claw will be AV8)to make the upgrade more interesting because for +30k TV it's a very undermining option right now
I don't want to nerf MB/Claw because...lizards, orcs, dwarves.
I would however nerf the Claw/PO combo that is too efficient against AV9 players by not allowing the claw modifier for the PO rolls only.
I would also make Big Guy immune to claw because most are bad enough and that will make them unique, especially comparatively to any ST4 +1ST player or even ST3 +2ST that make them look like garbage.
Finally i would allow the +1AV skill rolls to ignore claw (so a +1AV players against claw will be AV8)to make the upgrade more interesting because for +30k TV it's a very undermining option right now
Posted by Wreckage on 2015-12-12 16:39:59
apart from redoing these ancient debates...
there was a really good suggestion today, which was to make +av not be affected by Claw.
This would actually make +av the more attractive pick over +ma. Ma would be still a nieche pick because in some situations its just invaluable.
It would contribute to the overall healthyness of some races and teams and therefore be a huge balancer for the game itself.
Its a costly pick at 30 tv, yet very appropriate.
We could see more and other high TV races, we would percieve CPOMB as less of a threat, it would not actually mess up bash skills the way they have carefully been designed to balance the game between bash and agility teams since you still have to pay for the av.
yes, I think that was an excellent idea. We totally should do it.
there was a really good suggestion today, which was to make +av not be affected by Claw.
This would actually make +av the more attractive pick over +ma. Ma would be still a nieche pick because in some situations its just invaluable.
It would contribute to the overall healthyness of some races and teams and therefore be a huge balancer for the game itself.
Its a costly pick at 30 tv, yet very appropriate.
We could see more and other high TV races, we would percieve CPOMB as less of a threat, it would not actually mess up bash skills the way they have carefully been designed to balance the game between bash and agility teams since you still have to pay for the av.
yes, I think that was an excellent idea. We totally should do it.
Posted by keggiemckill on 2015-12-12 17:17:47
Claw all menz... said my Cat.