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Ulm
Last seen 4 years ago
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75/27/51
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Archive

2009

2009-08-26 13:33:49
rating 2.2
2009-08-26 11:53:09
rating 3.2

2008

2008-08-08 02:07:19
rating 3.9
2008-07-29 00:14:01
rating 5.2
2008-06-26 09:09:14
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2007

2007-11-11 00:45:24
rating 4.4
2009-08-26 13:33:49
47 votes, rating 2.2
Ah, the joys of watching spectator chat
Watching the LC match between Flachpfeifens 4th try and Danish Terror, I noticed this paticular little gem. Coach name has been edited out.

<CoachNameHere> not a birthday team, justa vamilla killer chaso team. with somewhat unimaginative choices on skills rolls. And also the darling of seemingly all danish coaches on fumbbl.

<CoachNameHere> nor do i enjoy the following that,to me, verges on racism often. and is certainly nationalistic. a thing i feel has no place in BB, or on the net in general

We agree wholeheartedly, CoachNameHere. Racism and nationalism has no place on fumbbl. We'd sure appreciate if you didn't trash talk all the danish coaches in spec chat.

Hugs and kisses

#fumbbl.dk
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Comments
Posted by PeteW on 2009-08-26 13:41:04
Jesp has done very well building himself a ncie fat chaos team. It takes a lot of hard work and careful match selection to form such a beautiful monstrosity.... I know, because I have done the same!

Also, I think there is a difference between enjoying one's country and naming players after people from it, and nationalism!!!! Exaggeration ftw... :/
Posted by freak_in_a_frock on 2009-08-26 14:06:07
Now this could open a whole can of worms. Please play nice people. Remember they are fictional teams, and should be treated as such.
Posted by Ulm on 2009-08-26 14:24:32
Agreed freak. I specced the game because I wanted to see 2 teams with a lot of good players, coached by good coached have a go at it. It was a fun game to watch. But I found it more than a little annoying that spectator chat for the better part of the first two halves was a constant tirade of spectators badmouthing coaches.

If people must vent their fustrations and pseudo-nationalistic remarks, it's fairly simple for them to make a private channel in IRC and spare those of us who want to watch the game their drama.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2009-08-26 15:27:04
i can only agree Ulm. the coach you dont name is me, and im happy to stand by my comments. Indeed i am proud to have made them and would do so again.

I find it interesting that you use 'we' and sign youself as fumbbl.dk, rather than as a person/individual.

personally i am not a member of any national channel, nor would i support any team due to a national alliegance.

As to trash talking 'all' danish coches in chat. i dont do so nor ever would. I dislike one team, and most especially the way it is followed. I voiced that opinion and was attacked by a few coaches and one in particular, an attack i met with the same vitriol i recieved.

I will continue to oppose nationalism and borderline racism where i find it, not in an attempt to oppose one nation, but to oppose one despicable stain that is creeping into fumbbl.

As i said in the chat. i dislike all such petty nationalism, and all such chaos teams, and all pimping done by coaches of the same nation and organised in national channels, which to my mind shoudln't exist.

I certainly dont trash talk all of any one nations coaches nor support ny one nations coaches, i dont see what relevance nationality has to a single player game over the WORLD wide web.

I feel it spoils the spectacle of what was a good game for all, when such petty nationalism dominates what is and isnt acceptable to say while watching it, and where criticism of a team is seen as criticism of a nation.
Posted by anti on 2009-08-26 15:48:37
Quote: "I will continue to oppose nationalism and borderline racism where i find it, not in an attempt to oppose one nation, but to oppose one despicable stain that is creeping into fumbbl."

that you don't like bashy chaos teams like those, fair enough, can't help that.

I still fail to see how it's natioinalist/racist to have a team with players named after people you know (many of us know eachother from real life). It's just another theme team, and on top of that it's just an easy namingscheme, and you get spectators for matches, since people like watching games with themselves in it. good fluff.

I find it insulting that you'd call me racist because I take a fluffy interest in a team a friend of mine is running.
Posted by PurpleChest on 2009-08-26 16:04:31
if that is your sole reason then i doubt we'd ever fall out.

And certainly no insult is intended if that is your motivation.

But as was said today, and has been said before, (not by you) many follow DT due to it being Danish, and due to that being its name. Some that would boo it if it had any other name, and who i have heard decrying other such teams without the national connection, cheer it for solely nationalistic reasons.

this is what i dislike. Jesperius himself i have no issues with, he is a fine coach. The names of the players i dont mind at all. Even the team name is his choice and none of my bussiness.

But cheering a killer team 100+ TR above its opponent due to it having the name of your nation, i find unappealing. Saying so gets you attacked by coaches from that nation (my character, game choices and even my lack of friends was called into question). What other term would you find to fit this circumstance?

And this is the first time anyone has said to me they support DT as the coach is their friend, several have said it is because of their nationality.
Posted by WG|Dark_Angel on 2009-08-26 16:18:57
Jesperius must have a mighty lot of friends to receive such ardent support based on real life connections.

Let's be honest with ourselves. He's your netbro and he's naming his claw+rsc's after you or the people you hang out with in some national IRC channel, so you all gather 'round merrily when he plays and feed his team to kingdom come.

That, in itself, isn't really problematic. It's lame, but not a problem as such. The spaniards do it all the time, too. It's bullshit to be in denial about it and hold grandiose speeches about the glory of such a team, though.

Just for the record, I have never, and will never, join #fumbbl.de. I don't see the merit. This isn't my platform for social recompense. Quit acting like it were.
Posted by anti on 2009-08-26 16:42:46
Let's be honest, yes. I know jesperius, and I'm not racist. It's very simple.

I enjoy looking at any two teams tear each other apart on the pitch, like so many do, but I usually support the team run by people I know and talk with (often danes here on fumbbl, but not exclusively). I don't cheer for danes that I do not know or talk with. (either in RL or on IRC). Haven't been very active on fumbbl lately, so I'm mainly here for chatting and spectating matches, so I guess you could say I was here for the social parts.

Anyway, back to purplechest's comments:
I can imagine many people cheer for danish teams, just like they would cheer for the danish soccer team or whatever. For many of the coaches annoyed by this, I know for a fact that they are not racist (both judging by what they say, and by ethnic backgrounds).

I think it's fairly natural to cheer for the people you chat/talk with, as opposed to someone you've never actually had any contact with.

It's a social club, really. we don't cheer for the coaches not in fumbbl.dk chatting with us, as we don't really know them, even if they're danes.

On the count of cheering on pimped up basher teams, I'm 100% guilty. I also enjoy watching paulhicks' games, for instance :P
Posted by PurpleChest on 2009-08-26 17:20:47
then i am not anti anti (loving that). indeed a key reason i supported p4m, when i am no lover of one turners, is that p4m does a lot for the official tournaments, and hence i have a relationship with p4m i dont have with jesperius.

But do you recall when someone said 'i cheer them because on the team it says danish'
I replied 'so does my bacon, would you cheer that'
the reply: 'yes'

thats the sort of thing i have an issue with. But saying so gets me attacked. And i still dont see the correlation between national teams in sports and single player games. That said maybe we should look at having a national based Tournament, if the desire is there. I wouldn't be a big fan of it, but if people want it, we could do it.
Posted by PainState on 2009-08-26 17:38:55
Serious?

A danish coach is mad because some of the Specs were rooting against the Terrors and he believes Nationalism and Racism has reared its ugly head? ROFL.

SO to reverse this assine theory. Lets say PeteW is playing and his WIL friends show up and are cheering him on. But some specs show up and starting cheering against PeteW and some anti WIL comments start flowing.

is that
1)some fun competition between the WIL group and the rest of Fumbbl at large
2)A protest against 17century British Imperialism
3)Or they hate "whitey" and want him taken down.


You really think #2 and #3 is the reason coaches might cheer against PeteW and the WIL coaches? Serious?

But I need to check myself, this is FUMBBL were some of the craziest ideas/thought process are floated from time to time.
Posted by Ulm on 2009-08-26 18:02:44
Actually, painstate, the coach whose name I edited out already stepped up in an earlier comment. He's not Danish, he's British.

Either way, this is fast turning into a lovely little flame war, which wasn't the intent of the OP. I'm just tired of having my motivations labeled by others solely based where my profile says I was born. If I'd gone and written Uzbekistan instead, I could probably have saved myself an enormous amount of aggravation.

In regards to one of the two teams having it's players named after people the coach enjoys chatting with; The way I read the other teams bio, it does the exact same thing. Fumbbl as a site and community is built up on the social aspects of the game as much as - if not more so - than the board game itself. In such an environment it is unavoidable that subgroups will spring up among people who get along well with each other. I name some of my players after coaches I enjoy talking to. I spec games my friends play, and cheer for them. And I'm sick and tired of people I barely know giving me flak for doing so in chat, simply because we happen to have the same native language
Posted by Emphasy on 2009-08-26 18:08:05
No PainState...

Read again:)

Purple think some of the danes cheering for Jespers teams are racists/nationalists since the only reason they cheer is, that the team got danish in the name, is coached by a dane and they might be on the team themself.

Its Bloodbowl and people cheer for a lot of crazy stuff, this is no worse. People also cheer Paulhicks when he t16 fouls yet again, or when elves play elves with no fouls and 10-10 as a final result.

We all got our prefrences to what we like and cheer. Can't see why some coaches have to resolve to accusing one specific nation of being racists/nationalists...

ohh wait... Purple.. are you really a muslim terrorist (NO! i do not say ALL muslims are terrorists, just to get ahead of some of you twats, haha)? Still mad about them cartoons?

And yes Purple, when you scream racism in a game of bb, you get mocked... a lot, and well deserved also:)
Posted by Mr_Foulscumm on 2009-08-26 18:08:40
Are you trying to say Danish people don't suck? :-/

:D
Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-08-26 18:10:25
Hmm - I kinda don't get it.

I wasn't in spec chat for this game, but I think I can work out what was said. Is it racism if it's true? If the Danes made a concerted effort to feed Jesper soft teams and he profited with an uber team, is voicing displeasure at this practice a) not allowed and / or b) racism? I don't think it is. At all. You're allowed to not like stuff people do and voice an opinion, surely? Now, if it went _further_ and people were giving Danes a shoeing for little reason, or tarring everyone with the same brush, swearing, saying hateful things, or whatever, it's probably too much.

For the record, I give out stick to people that live in #whiteisle if they have produced what I perceive as lame teams (not a WIL opinion, a Purplegoo opinion, and I welcome debate, not bullying - it's a British thing to give a bit of stick out, and people who know me know it's meant well. Forrest and Pete are two coaches that spring to mind that I've had debates in the past with about the use of [R]anked), but I certainly attend games in every division on site and pick and choose who I cheer and boo for. Being a WIL member means I'm going to cheer for you, picking a team makes speccing more fun! Why not support your mates? If a WIL guy was playing a Dane, I'd support the Brit, give a bit of kind hearted fun banter to Danes in chat, surely it adds to the fun? Like watching the World Cup!

Cheering, booing and supporting a team / person from your country = fine. I'd even encourage some national pride on FUMBBL. Having an opinion on a team and how it was built = fine. Going too far, not fine. Just don't go too far.

Tbh, if the Danes are feeling got at because of Jesper's team and things that are said about it, I have sympathy, but surely you understand why people have views? Even if you don't, be careful before you lable people racists. It's a strong old term for an internet based Java game.
Posted by pythrr on 2009-08-26 18:15:38
storm in teacup much?
Posted by Doowa on 2009-08-26 18:16:07
I've been around fumbbl since... 2003 I think, and was part of the small group that started the danish IRC channel. I guess ppl fail to understand, that we have a pretty good danish fumbbl community, with all the competitive and social things you need for a good soup.

first: @Painstate - I'm afraid you've misread/understood. The danish community isn't mad, because, specs are rooting against a danish team/coach, but, because, Purplechest pretty much accused us for being nationalistic and racist. Hardly words to be taken lightly IMO.

@PurpleChest. I have the uttermost respect for all you do for fumbbl and as a coach, but hinting that we - the danish community - are nationalistic/racists and conspiring together is just sad.
As mentioned before and by other coaches, we do have a strong relationship here on fumbbl and yes, a lot of us do know eachother IRL. So it's only natural that we spec and cheer eachother on.

Hope most ppl feels the same way..
Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-08-26 18:16:17
Perhaps I too have misunderstood.

I lubs everybody, let's just get along. I don't know PC personally or anything, but everything he's ever done on FUMBBL to date that I've seen has been dripping with class and integrity, perhaps this issue just went a bit far, and we all need to step back and remember we're all buddies really. :)
Posted by Emphasy on 2009-08-26 18:59:32
2 different coaches with purple in them... I smell DOUBLE ACCOUNTS!!!! just to be sure, I'd say ban em both:)
Posted by Purplegoo on 2009-08-26 19:05:48
/nick Emphagoo.

Mwhahahahahaha!
Posted by SillySod on 2009-08-26 19:38:26
It is sort of true though ;)
Posted by SillySod on 2009-08-26 19:47:53
Purplegoo is a bully :(
Posted by Chewie on 2009-08-26 21:30:42
Don't recall playing against PC, though think he does a sterling job of running the majors. Don't recall playing Ulm.

Don't therefore have an issue with either of the coaches.

However, it's as Purplegoo said:
"If the Danes made a concerted effort to feed Jesper soft teams and he profited with an uber team, is voicing displeasure at this practice a) not allowed and / or b) racism? I don't think it is."

Seriously guys - don't misinterpret somebody moaning about how the fumbbl.dk gang allegedly helped one of their own to have a killer team as racism. If the team had been formed by a member of the WIL, a member of LOA, a member of OBBA, or a member of SWL, i'm sure Purplechest would have a similar opinion as to the one has has about Danish Terror. And those leagues are Multinational.

Danes, we <3 ya, but get over yourselves :)

Posted by Emphasy on 2009-08-26 21:36:55
I think as Chewie writes here is the problem all together. You make it sound like Jesper only played danes with this team...

You are making it a matter of nationality, when it shouldn't be at all. And "Seriously guys - don't misinterpret somebody moaning about how the fumbbl.dk gang allegedly helped one of their own to have a killer team as racism." - Purplechest called it racism and nationalism himself.

The fact is that every game Jesper plays with his team, purple and a few others, sit and moan about the team, with their endless ranting over and over again instead of telling it to his face. THATS one of the real problems here on fumbbl. People talking in corners like little girls and never being straight up with people saying what they feel etc.

Kiss and hugs to all of you angry people:D (some of you guys clearly needs it, mouahahahaha)
Posted by Shraaaag on 2009-08-26 21:52:13
There definitely were some Trolls among the spectators. I came to watch 2 great teams battling it out to see who'd make the finals. Two teams with very different strategies (one with fast gutters scoring in 1 round, the other needing to get players of the field in order to score). Both teams did their best at what they did. If you don't like their team or strategy, then so be, we all have different taste. The fact that the danish players have a good community, and support eachother shouldn't be an issue, and it certainly shouldn't be viewed as nationalistic or racist. I wish the norwegian community was as tight, but we're small, spread around and mostly inactive.

I would ask that in the future, spectators leave their personal grudges at home and enjoy the game, or just don't spectate the game at all.
Posted by treborius on 2009-08-27 07:17:50
and i though *we* germans had issues with self-esteem, nationalism and similar topics
and did someone actually use the term 'racism'??? - c'mon people, don't u have lifes???
Posted by adambomb on 2009-08-27 10:32:56
i give Shraaaag 's post a 5 rating 'cause he sums things up pretty succinctly
Posted by mymLaban on 2009-08-27 13:54:41
Posted by WG|Dark_Angel on 2009-08-26 16:18:57
Jesperius must have a mighty lot of friends to receive such ardent support based on real life connections.

Yes he does some online some realife and tbh i think he has atleast meet most of them in real life, danish BB tourneys our huge Roskilde festival and so on.

Posted by WG|Dark_Angel on 2009-08-26 16:18:57
Just for the record, I have never, and will never, join #fumbbl.de. I don't see the merit. This isn't my platform for social recompense. Quit acting like it were.

I didnt know Jesperius when i first got to chat with him in fumbbl.dk, but after a long time and alot of chat i do know him. Since then we have been to a few concerts gotten drunk and all that :) And if i remember correct we also played in a tablewtop tourney once. So maybe you should check out fumbbl.de i could be worth it.

I guess we kinda have the advantage of being such a small country, its easy for us to get together :)

Posted by Shimin on 2009-08-27 17:42:43
Amazing how cheering a team can make people go mad... I thought fumbbl was just for fun. Somebody takes fumbbl WAY to serious!

About the danish community: Consider that we actually have another language as our primary, and might like to chat with others in that language, maybe even bloodbowl related topics sometimes.

I read, talk and hear a lot of english in everyday life, and i enjoy speaking, writing and listening to the english language (well, it is also influenced a lot by the danish language due to our occupation of England way back), but sometimes i just need to have my primary language, and there the danish community has merit. This ofcourse also makes us know eachother better, and therefor cheering eachother on. BUT there are also a lot of danish coaches not on fumbbl.dk (i think danes are the 3rd most on fumbbl as i recall), and those there arent done any special favours on. If i play a danish coach and its a fun match i invite him to join #fumbbl.dk, but only if i like the guy. Since i only play people on #fumbbl, there isnt much point in inviting nondanes to #fumbbl, but would otherwise do so (with blackbox and tourneys you might actually meet someone not on #fumbbl).

Respect eachother and know this is only for fun, most people dont take it so seriously and certainly not the bantering of fans...
Posted by shadow46x2 on 2009-08-28 05:35:05
how many matches does danish terror lose against danes?...

and how many do they win?...

now compare that to matches against non-danes...

is there a correlation?
(and no i haven't looked)

just random curiosity....
Posted by SillySod on 2009-08-28 23:58:30
What're you getting at shadow?

Danes are crap at BB but you dont have to be mean and point it out :/

Peace man, peace :P
Posted by Ulm on 2009-08-29 15:49:21
Can't speak for anyone else Shadow, but I've played 2 matches against them. I managed to win one and tie the other. I fouled until the smelly ref sent my DP off, and generally tried to cause as much damage as I deemed necessary to win.

Is there a point to your question?