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Poll
Should we have half numbers?
Yes, I want the options!
36%
 36%  [ 8 ]
No, it's far too messy!
45%
 45%  [ 10 ]
I want a beer to go with my steak and ale pie
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 22


harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top
One area Jervis Johnson has been adamant about, and I believe is a mistake, is regarding half numbers.

Jervis has stood firm on his view of round numbers. However with the release of the Chaos Pact roster (ok there are some problems with it), we've seen some 0-1 positionals that aren't big guys. Instead of the firm 0-2, as a minimum of all the other rosters that were built to Jervis recommendations. In the future, I would like to see a lot more of this, in roster creation.

So I believe it's time to remove another 1 or 2 of Jervis's shackles of conservative numbers.

Why? Well having complete numbers, means there are big rough steps between each one, however having numbers in between these, will round some of these rough edges and allow finer tuning and smaller jumps.

The main number where we need more options and smaller increments, is in player purchasing and player costs. Jervis is very firm that players costs should be rounded to 10k, but why?

The argument is that it keeps things simpler and cleaner. However having player costs in 5k increments will allow finer tuning and help to remove or dampen some of the roster problems.

As an example, if player costs allowed 5k increments, some possible changes could be:

Zombies 35k
Marauders 55k
Beastmen 65K
Black Orc Blockers 85k
Human Catchers 65k

This would be more realistic and would help in balancing as well as making some unpopular positionals a little more popular.

So if we look at this as a positive change, possibly there are other areas where we can use half numbers. One that sticks out as a possible is player ST (rounded down for Break Tackle).

MA, AG and AV would all be unpractical to use half numbers, however ST would give us plenty of options to allow changes in ST.

For example:

Human Catcher 2.5 ST
Some star player big guys 5.5 ST
Zug 4.5 ST
Halflings 1.5 ST (maybe)
New Khorne big guy 5.5 ST
Zon catchers 2.5 ST

Of course changes in ST could be offset with changes in price (5k increments of course).

Anyway thoughts please.
KenThis



Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 12:35 Reply with quote Back to top
me likes
zakatan



Joined: May 17, 2008
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 12:37 Reply with quote Back to top
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.

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spubbbba



Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 12:41 Reply with quote Back to top
I've thought the same for a long time about the 5k values. It was possible to have those amounts in your treasury under lrb4 due to freebooters and it would make sense when changing teams.

I'd make both human blitzers and catchers 5K cheaper, but would make Orc blitzers 85K over the Black Orcs.

I'd also put skeletons down to 35K instead of zombies to make it more of a choice and to help out khemri. For the same reason blitz-ras should be 5K cheaper than Wights.

I'm not sure about half strengths as that could get a bit messy.

With the 0-3 positionals thing it could work but not sure where as one of the sticking points of roster design was not altering the models needed for the team. Not that they kept to that when nerfing Ogres to 0-6 of course.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 12:49 Reply with quote Back to top
zakatan wrote:
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.


+1

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Daudy



Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 13:02 Reply with quote Back to top
With 5k increments for player values, could this potentially extend to inducements?

Also don't mind the odd numbers for positionals, but half strengths is just asking for trouble.

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harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 13:09 Reply with quote Back to top
What are the main problems with .5 ST?

The main problem I see, is making the profile messy, and easier to misread. So instead of .5 ST, how about doubling the ST (halving and rounding down for break tackle maybe). This would be more inline with 2nd ED values.

So for example:

BOB ST 8
Zug ST 9
Ogre ST 10
Khorne big guy ST 11
Tree ST 12

(Edit)
Actually this changes assists quite drastically, and wouldn't really work.
happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 13:35 Reply with quote Back to top
doubling strength is complicated because then assists have to be worth 2 as well and things like +/- ST are really different.

using .5 strength is messy to compute and you get things like human 2.5 st catchers getting 2d blocks on wood elf catchers or whatnot. And more importantly, things like tents are messy with .5 ST.

I really like the idea of 5k changes to rosters, but I think that the integers in the game should be left that way.

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Emeric



Joined: May 25, 2011
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 13:37 Reply with quote Back to top
The price idea looks very nice and does only change roster balancing.

The strength idea changes a lot more i think, that could become really very different - i like it less.

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JimmyFantastic



Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 13:48 Reply with quote Back to top
Very bad idea. KISS.

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Jose_Gorinyo



Joined: Jul 02, 2012
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 14:19 Reply with quote Back to top
As already said, +/- 5k seems to be a nice thing to add to the prices but .5 stats thing is really messy and will hugely affect the base gameplay in terms of who can get 2D blocks without assists, or how one player could go from a -2D block to a +2D block with only a single assist (2.5 v 3 -> 3.5 v 3).
Niebling



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 14:24 Reply with quote Back to top
koadah wrote:
zakatan wrote:
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.


+1


+2

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Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 14:30 Reply with quote Back to top
Niebling wrote:
koadah wrote:
zakatan wrote:
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.


+1


+2


+3

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quixote



Joined: Mar 13, 2005
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 15:20 Reply with quote Back to top
Shraaaag wrote:
Niebling wrote:
koadah wrote:
zakatan wrote:
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.


+1


+2


+3


+4
dode74



Joined: Aug 14, 2009
Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2012 - 16:17 Reply with quote Back to top
quixote wrote:
Shraaaag wrote:
Niebling wrote:
koadah wrote:
zakatan wrote:
i understand the pricing bit, but i seriously wouldn't like to see half strenghts around.


+1


+2


+3


+4


+5
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