Aecrylis
Joined: Nov 20, 2006
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 Posted:
Mar 02, 2008 - 09:49 |
 
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The Str2 would not matter once he has Dauntless and Horns.. with those 2 combined he can have a 2dice block on anything from a Goblin to a Treeman.. depending on which is more likely to be holding the ball  |
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Hyouyoku
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
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| Posted:
Mar 02, 2008 - 10:14 |
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Possibly.
Just takes too many skills if you ask me.
He already used two on AG+ and MA+.
With Very Long Legs or Sprint he could become an exellent oneturnerand take benefit from his AG+. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Mar 02, 2008 - 10:51 |
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http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=1691373
This is what a true gutter blitzer would look like. I played him wrong and tended to score too much with him, hence premature aging and retirement. I should've used him more like this instead:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=5122736
If you want to make maximum usesfulness of his stats for as long as possible, then instead of a blitzer/scorer I'd make him a ball-control expert. On offense, he's your thrower, holding the ball deep until his teammates are ready to score, then racing ahead to get them the ball. On defense, he waits for the ball to be jarred loose by another, then retrieves the ball right from under the enemy's nose, gives to a teammate already in position to score (what, you don't have a rat permanently in range of scoring at all times? Shame on you...).
As such, here's the skills I would personally give him...
On normal roll:
Leap, surehands, block, passblock...in that order
On a double roll:
Bighand, Nerves of Steel, Safethrow...again, in that order
Doing this setup he'll only be likely to get 1-3 spp per match, and you can keep him for a while. But then, what do I know about rats? Does almost 900 games played AS a rat, and 200 games AGAINST rats, qualify me as an expert? How about the 31 rats I've guided to over 100 spp, including 10 megastars (126+) and 7 legends (176+)? No? Then listen to the true "experts" who've posted already... |
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Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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DreadClaw
Joined: Nov 17, 2003
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Mar 02, 2008 - 10:57 |
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| AFK_Eagle wrote: | http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=1691373
This is what a true gutter blitzer would look like. I played him wrong and tended to score too much with him, hence premature aging and retirement. I should've used him more like this instead:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=player&player_id=5122736
If you want to make maximum usesfulness of his stats for as long as possible, then instead of a blitzer/scorer I'd make him a ball-control expert. On offense, he's your thrower, holding the ball deep until his teammates are ready to score, then racing ahead to get them the ball. On defense, he waits for the ball to be jarred loose by another, then retrieves the ball right from under the enemy's nose, gives to a teammate already in position to score (what, you don't have a rat permanently in range of scoring at all times? Shame on you...).
As such, here's the skills I would personally give him...
On normal roll:
Leap, surehands, block, passblock...in that order
On a double roll:
Bighand, Nerves of Steel, Safethrow...again, in that order
Doing this setup he'll only be likely to get 1-3 spp per match, and you can keep him for a while. But then, what do I know about rats? Does almost 900 games played AS a rat, and 200 games AGAINST rats, qualify me as an expert? How about the 31 rats I've guided to over 100 spp, including 10 megastars (126+) and 7 legends (176+)? No? Then listen to the true "experts" who've posted already... |
Bah, I know my rats just as good as the next guy. He's ma+ ag+. 10/2/5/7. I'd definately go for that dless/horns combo myself over bighand nos. However, Block leap is a very viable option. Block is a necessity though.
Whichever way you turn it, in the end it's all about personal preferences. I love block dodge ss a lot, and my gutters take it all the time. |
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Death be not proud. Though Some have called thee Mighty and Dreadful Thou art not so. |
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GeneralCael
Joined: Jan 12, 2006
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Mar 02, 2008 - 11:59 |
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Hyouyoku wrote:
| Quote: | On the double I'd give him:
Very Long Legs, Foul Appearance, Big Hand, Spikes, Guard, Nerves of steel. |
Welcome to the board 
It's just that for the people who have been here for a while, your suggestions doesn't seem very well-thought-out.
Here is why, in my oppinion:
Very Long Legs: If you search the board for "chain push" you will find, that it is easy to make a push to a MA10 guy, thus making him a one-turner without wasting the double.
Foul Appearence: I have no problems with this skill. He is a gutter runner, and no matter what skills you give him, he will ALWAYS take a beating. That is the downside of being st2 and av7.
Big Hands: With ag5, the skill would only be useful if the ball is lying in at least 2 opponent tackle zones. That is pretty normal, but you also have a blitz to remove one, so really it would only be useful if the opponent has 3 tacklezones on the ball.. and then without the skill you'd still get the ball on a 3+....
Spikes: In my experience, the number one cause of death among gutter runners is gang-fouls. Here it doesnt really matter if you have av8 instead of 7. He'll go down anyway.
Guard: For this to be useful, you'll have to position him next to at least 2 opponents. Something that you should strive to NOT do with your gutterrunners.
Nerves of Steel: Almost same argument as with Big Hands. With AG5 you would have to stand in at least 2 tackle zones for it to make a difference. You usually don't have to do that, as you also have dodge, and can easily remove yourself from most opponents.
Hope this clarified some of the remarks. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 02, 2008 - 19:39 |
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| Hyouyoku wrote: | Right...
Thanks for the warm welcome to the board. |
I'm sorry about what happened to you in the other thread but here I was aiming my post at the original poster and I think its genuinely good advice to say that he shouldnt listen to your build options
Hopefully I can explain why I dont like these options...
1) Move options - Very Long Legs, Sprint - I dont like these because they are taking up skills just to make him a oneturner. Firstly, a oneturner is very very hard to stop from collecting too many SPPs and aging prematurely. Secondly, an unskilled gutter runner can already score in a single turn. Read about chainpushing for more details.
2) Big Hand, Nerves of steel - not so keen on these because with agility 5 he can already get in and out of pretty much anywhere and deal with the ball really easily in most places.
3) Survival skills - Foul Appearance, Spikes, Sidestep - these skills are nice but I probably wouldnt consider spending doubles on survival skills until he's already a real monster.
4) Catch - this dosent let him do anything new and he should be good enough at catching already, you can always team re-roll it if you are unlucky enough to drop it.
5) Guard - thats an interesting option with lots to recomend it but I think it would need to be thought through very carefully exactly how you would use it and have a very specific skillset to go with it
All of the skills you mentioned have merit but they look like poor choices when you consider some of the other skills a gutter runner could take:
Dauntless - very handy to turn him into a high speed blitzer, you can strike pretty much anywhere with Mv10, Ag5 and dauntless lets you strike anyone
Horns - perfect compliment to dauntless, you willl be hitting everything on a 2D block in your favour without needing assists
Claw/RSC - if the rat is intended to take down anyone anywhere then its obviously beneficial if the player dies before he hits the ground 
Strip ball - he just needs to get that nice push result and it really helps get the ball off of alot of teams for a quick score.
DT/Shadowing/Sidestep/...etc.... there are alot of solid options for a skilled gutter runner.
Hope this helps explain my post |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Hyouyoku
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
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Mar 02, 2008 - 20:12 |
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Don't think about the other thread.
They don't know me so I cant take it personal.
What bugs me is that I still haven't heard from the moderators... And I've given up on installing the IRC chat again...
As for the Sidestep and block...
I take those two as natural as possible. Can't imagine a gutterrunner without it.
The guy originally asked if we suggest a oneturner a blitzer or what.
My suggestion is on a oneturner and then go for packing him up against premature death.
Having completely forgotten the phenomenon "Ageing" is however a flaw of mine.
As for the chainpushing... I finf it kind of cheating... Ironic isn't it 
The general tendency however does seem to be for a blitzer. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 04, 2008 - 18:08 |
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Don't give up on installing the irc chat, in the long run it will be worth it...........for talking to the administrators and to finding games when yo come back.
As being the major instigator of how you were treated in your last thread I don't apologise. I feel i gave you good advise, but your manner wasn't as polite as it could be, therefor slightly impolite (not rude), thus I explained why the community turned against you. Your best bet is to turn the other cheek, and get on with fumbbl, it is a great place.
All aside, I am backing you here. However I am not skaven coach. Please explain to us how the one turner option isn't the best? Getting an ag and ma boost is truly a blessing and aids in the long runs and dodges to one turn. I understand the chain push is possible but not a sure thing and may take a re roll, which maybe needed for a gfi or something later in the turn. Also 1 turners aren't always possible, for instance against halflings or stand firm front lines.
We feel with 2 such skills he is destined to be a 1 turner and of course isn't as useful all round but to the scoreline, he has a major impact. I have never coached rats, and neither am I a great coach. So an explanation on why this is wrong (and I trust your judgements) would be appreciated for me, the author and hyouyoko. |
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runreallyfast
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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Mar 04, 2008 - 18:16 |
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I used to have a +AG +MA gutter who had sure hands (it was his first skill)...and, you know what?
It was utterly amazing.
The thing about someone like that is that they are best used as a tool to skill everyone else on the team by handing it off and passing and such. Sure, gutters can be good blitzers, but this guy will only be a good blitzer after two or three more skills. Better to have another gutter take those skills.
My recommendation is that you look at this guy as having two jobs; getting the ball when it comes loose and skilling up rookies.
I would take leap, then sure hands, then block. I guess if I rolled doubles I would take dauntless, but I would give serious thought to foul appearance too.
I know that not having block on a gutter seems bad, but with that kind of mobility he isn't going to be exposed to bad guys for long. Just make sure he never has the ball at the end of his turn; give the opponents a choice between blitzing him after he's stolen the ball or blitzing the guy with the ball. And screen him away from homicidal maniacs until it's time for him to go do his job. |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 04, 2008 - 18:29 |
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Meh, I think the frenzy should be replaced with Multiblock! |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 04, 2008 - 18:39 |
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VLL for cheesy goodness |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Mar 04, 2008 - 18:41 |
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Retire him before he meets Lady Pain |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Mar 04, 2008 - 18:42 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: |
As being the major instigator of how you were treated in your last thread I don't apologise. I feel i gave you good advise, but your manner wasn't as polite as it could be, therefor slightly impolite (not rude), thus I explained why the community turned against you. Your best bet is to turn the other cheek, and get on with fumbbl, it is a great place. |
He didn't even bring up the other thread, and he brushed it off when someone else did. Maybe you should recheck that thread though. You were rude from the start. |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 04, 2008 - 18:43 |
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wuude-ness!
grow up kiddies |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Mar 04, 2008 - 21:34 |
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A oneturner is very easy to make in other ways, having a blitzer with the potential to reach anwhere is not very easy to achieve. Of the two I'd say that a blitzer is the most useful because breaking your opponents defence is something which is heart shattering. That blitzer only has to do it once and it has at least equaled the effectiveness of the oneturner.
The fact that an AG5, Ma10 player can already oneturn with ease already just makes it an easy choice
PS, drop it mouse |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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