Oly1987
Joined: Oct 02, 2006
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  Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 15:08 |
 
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I recently made a pact team and decided to make the team properly i.e have all the big guys and all the 'positionals' and I've had a lot of fun with them (a good amount of wins has helped) but it got me wondering how people can stomach playing them in the min/max clawpomb style when you can make a much more interesting and fun team. I've made mine a mix of bashing and mad passes. Has anyone made awesome themed/skilled pact team? |
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Capn_Crunch
Joined: Sep 10, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 15:19 |
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I'm surprised in general how the game has devolved into min/max clawpombing nonsense. It's like everyone forgot the last 20 years of bloodbowl and the fun that was had. Now you look at team rosters and it's just pathetic. Makes me sad. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Mar 28, 2012 - 15:22 |
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the new rules encourage minmax much more than the old rules did.
this is why.
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 15:28 |
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I'm surprised about many things...like your Pact team record and the average CR of your opponents...
That said, yes, most Pacts are a pitiable mix of shamefull minmax madness and poor team desing.
Just imagine, doubles for Streng or Mutations on the Marauders and standard access to mutations on BGs and everibody would be developing them mostly like you do. |
Last edited by nin on Mar 28, 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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Oly1987
Joined: Oct 02, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 15:30 |
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I suppose everyone min/max's in some capacity. I am not averse to cutting players or whatever to shave the tv a little but I won't try to keep a team at a specific tv just because its optimal for them. I want my teams big and with lots of skill no matter the race. And just to clarify this isn't a clawpomb rant thread. I use the skills but i don't make them a core feature (I'm saving that for when I have a two heads, big hand, extra arms goblin who will be up to all sorts of crazy shananigans |
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Capn_Crunch
Joined: Sep 10, 2004
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 15:31 |
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The rules, in fact, encourage no such thing. People just want to get any advantage they can get. I'm certain that it was not the designers' intent, to have a game that was played a certain way for decades devolve into the nonsense of a team with 150 games under it's belt and only two guys that have skills, no coaches, no cheerleaders, very few players over 11 and as few re-rolls as possible. It's not how the game was originally designed to play and the fact of the matter that the poorly thought out inducement system has had ramifications that they simply didn't foresee.
It's like if someone changed the rules to chess and people found you could have a higher win percentage with just a queen, king and the rest pawns. People who played that way would be douchebags, even though their win percentages might increase. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Mar 28, 2012 - 15:37 |
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Nobody forces you to play Pact in any certain way. Even though I don't think it's a very good team design they are one of the most versatile races in the game.
I'm glad you enjoy playing yours the way you play them. I enjoy mine way more than I expected as well.
Since I play mine in a Division where I can just say "no thanks" to teams I would not enjoy playing I don't see any problem with people building theirs in a way I would not find fun. |
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Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 28, 2012 - 16:02 |
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IMO the problem with Pact is that it is a classic CRP team. Meaning it is by nature a roster that you can really mess with the TV. You have many "paths" to take with this team.
1)All big guy, positional like the OP and have a lot of fun. But in terms of TV managment this is a very poor choice.
2)The Cheese Box build. All marauders + Dark Elf. Great at keeping TV low. Accepting the reality that for the cost of 3 big guys you can get 7 marauders (no nega trait and all CLPOMB up) which as a wholle the 7 marauders are a lot more effective than the 3 big guys.
3)The somewere in the middle approach. Some big guys, with a true passer and some such. An attempt to not smell like provolone cheese whille wearing the disguise that you are a lover of fluff.
Iam sure there are a few more builds that the pact could pull off. Now how many diffrent builds can you make on the skaven roster? or the orc roster? The majority of rosters are very static. Pact is not, which means it is great, but also it is the fountain of cheese when it comes to Blood Bowl at the same time.
Or another way of looking at it. Is it the guns fault or the person who pulled the trigger? argument. |
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King_Ghidra
Joined: Sep 14, 2009
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 16:21 |
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| Capn_Crunch wrote: | | the poorly thought out inducement system has had ramifications that they simply didn't foresee. |
Can you explain what you mean by this? |
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Oly1987
Joined: Oct 02, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 16:26 |
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Admittedly the CR of my opponents isn't great but then i also think my CR greatly overestimates my ability. Also I've been looking at the races more than the coaches (generally I don't like playing dorfs or cdorfs but I'm making an active effort to try and mix my games up). On a quick development note my elf hot +ag first skill so on a double should he take pass, accurate or strong arm? |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Mar 28, 2012 - 16:42 |
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With your plans for the goblin, I'd make him into a sacker (he doesn't even need Very Long Legs). No good double choice for that role, neither for a runner's. He seems like a great thrower, but you can easily build a marauder into one and they don't have Animosity!
What about giving him MB (he'll later be able to not only steal the ball, but also hurt the carrier) or Grab (for surfing side steppers on the side line)?
The sad truth is, he'll probably benefit far more from Block/Wrestle or Dodge than anything else. And I'm really not exactly known for passing up on doubles.  |
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Last edited by Rabe on Mar 28, 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Mar 28, 2012 - 16:43 |
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| Capn_Crunch wrote: | | The rules, in fact, encourage no such thing. . |
Yes they do. The effectiveness of cl/mb/po combined with the ability of Pact to have a 11 lineman roster (with access to cl/mb/po) permits a killer combo laden team at a much lower TV than most other rosters. For people who wish to maximize wins in a tv-matched environment (not only box, but also R where TV limits are also imposed), then the current CRP rules encourage a low TV minmax team. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Mar 28, 2012 - 16:46 |
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He really hot with that +ag
Neither? he has animosity, I'd go Guard (mix with Two Heads, Blodge, and/or Sidestep)or Juggernaut (mix with Frenzy+Sidestep+Leap) on a double. |
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Rabe
Joined: Jun 06, 2009
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Mar 28, 2012 - 17:21 |
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Doh, forgot about both, Guard and Juggernaut. o_0
Juggernaut also combines with Strip Ball, so if you want to make him a sacker without him ending up on the ground after wrestling, you could go that route. And add Frenzy for the fun of surfing!
Ah well, so many options... 6 skill slots seem to few for guys like him! |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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Mar 28, 2012 - 17:25 |
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Agree with nin. The problem with pact can easily be solved by removing normal skillups in S, P and M for their linemen. They are essentially human linemen so give them G access only (but still slightly better than humies with M access on doubles). Then the gobbo/skaven are more useful (easy M access) and the big guys are more useful (only non-double access to claw/mb). Bingo
With a nerf like the above you could even give them a single chaos dwarf renegade positional (CDB with M access) without making them too good. |
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