thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 18:37 |
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MattDakka wrote: | Due to the avoided GFI at least 13.89% easier, assuming no rr available. |
14% easier of the odds of scoring a OTTD, which is what 5%? 0.14 x 0.05 ain't much.
Bear in mind that your wolf could die during this OTTD attempt. Failing a gfi gets an AV roll. How much easier is it to break 8AV compared to 9AV? |
_________________ There is always Sneaky Git. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 18:43 |
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That kind of sums it up.
If you're too scared to try to win a game because your armor might break, take +AV. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 18:46 |
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thoralf wrote: | MattDakka wrote: | Due to the avoided GFI at least 13.89% easier, assuming no rr available. |
14% easier of the odds of scoring a OTTD, which is what 5%? 0.14 x 0.05 ain't much.
Bear in mind that your wolf could die during this OTTD attempt. Failing a gfi gets an AV roll. How much easier is it to break 8AV compared to 9AV? |
the 1TTD is generally worth the risk of losing the player, if you aim to win, this of course may vary: if you play in a private league where even a draw is enough to win the season then trying to preserve the player might make sense.
Breaking the AV 8 is 27.77%
Breaking the AV 9 is 16.66
11.11% difference
With MA 8 you have to GFI one extra square, so tripping would happen more often. |
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Twelfman
Joined: Oct 23, 2014
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 18:59 |
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I've taken AV8 on a High Elf catcher, has saved my bacon more than once. 8/3/4/8 is not to be sniffed at. |
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ben_awesome
Joined: May 11, 2016
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 19:00 |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 19:01 |
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Twelfman wrote: | I've taken AV8 on a High Elf catcher, has saved my bacon more than once. 8/3/4/8 is not to be sniffed at. |
Neither is 9347.
How did it save your bacon anyway? Exactly how many times were the armor breaks on an actual 8? |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 20:59 |
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thoralf wrote: | MattDakka wrote: | On a werewolf +MA is a no brainer, makes 1TTD way easier. |
How much easier? I can't recall a one-turn by a necro team. I can't recall a necro game where a wolf hasn't been vulnerable.
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Necro ottd is actually not that hard at all - especially for two wolf necro who can frenzy push 2x on the blitz. Added to that is the natural progression of a wolf to take blodge/ss on normals.
The real issue is the dodge at the end - but that's why you spend turns fouling anything you can to create a gap if it becomes obvious you'll need to ottd.
You can also take leap. Wolves have a lot of leeway in skill selection. |
_________________
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 21:13 |
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Grod wrote: | ..But NO ONE ever gives a troll slayer +AV, they always take +MA.
Similarly for witch elves, dark elf runners, orc throwers, ghouls etc. No one ever gives them +AV even though they are often not on the team because of low AV.
Can someone clarify? |
AV7 players are often players who want high move such as for ball carrying (Ghouls, throwers, catchers) or frenzy (Witch Elves). Or maybe they need some other basic skill first. I can see thralls, Big Guys, av7 linos all benefitting if they don't have a block or dodge option on normal roll due. Trollslayers is a good call too. Not that I have ever chosen it.. |
_________________ “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 21:26 |
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"Breaking the AV 8 is 27.77%
Breaking the AV 9 is 16.66
11.11% difference "
Common mistake
It's not 11% better, it's 66% better, it's the ratio |
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 21:37 |
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MattDakka wrote: | On top of that, when the Werewolf faces Claw all his +AV is useless, +MA is never useless. |
Depends if he used his extra square of move before his armour was broken and he was stuck in the cas box. |
_________________ “A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 23:12 |
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Sp00keh wrote: | "Breaking the AV 8 is 27.77%
Breaking the AV 9 is 16.66
11.11% difference "
Common mistake
It's not 11% better, it's 66% better, it's the ratio |
Come on man! If I wanted a math class I would go back to college to get my masters.
We deal with gut reactions and chiseled in stone ways to play the game that will never change around here.
All that math stuff, goes in one ear and out the other.
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_________________ Comish of the: |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 23:17 |
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I can't remember ever having taken +AV on a player. Usually, I'd much rather have an active skill or +MA than something that gives one player a small increase in their chance of staying on the pitch.
As an example, imo, it's worth paying an extra 10k per player for High Elf linemen to have an extra point of AV compared with Pro Elf linemen. Across the whole team, that adds up to an extra 100k, which is probably still worth it. However, would I pay 30k per player and use up a skill slot to get the same result, which would cost 300k across the whole team? Heck no!
Ok, that's a very specific example and maybe you can say that it might be worth taking it on certain 'key players', rather than blanket across the whole team. No, I still don't think so, as those key players will almost always have something else they can take that makes them more effective. Plus, add in the fact that any Claw player will render your +AV completely useless ... no thanks. +MA can reliably be used every turn, if you need it, and nothing can simply cancel it out.
If I want AV8, I'll play High Elves rather than Wood Elves or Skaven. If I want AV9, I'll play Orcs or Dwarves ... |
_________________ "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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Uedder
Joined: Aug 03, 2010
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 23:44 |
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thoralf
Joined: Mar 06, 2008
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  Posted:
Apr 21, 2017 - 23:45 |
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MattDakka wrote: | 11.11% difference |
I'll take that over 0,007% more chances to score a OTTD if you don't mind, if only because I'd rather try to OTTD with a wolf on the board than with one stuck in the KO box. As if a GFI would prevent me from trying to OTTD.
When was the last time you saw a Wolf OTTD, and would you pick +MA or +AV on Ulfwerners? What about 8AV big guys?
MattDakka wrote: | +MA is never useless. |
Of course +MA's useless every single turn you don't need your full MA. Since AV is useless because of Clawz, I guess people should stop playing with 9AV teams, or we should stop taking Tackle because there are dodgeless teams.
The question is not about optimality anyway, but about worth. At best optimality is environment-relative. At worse it's the byproduct of imagination-free Naffy pseudo-Chess players. |
_________________ There is always Sneaky Git. |
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Tricktickler
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
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  Posted:
Apr 22, 2017 - 03:49 |
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+AV is usually better than +MA but +MA is worth taking on more occasions (might sound like a contradiction but it isn't)
Is +AV ever worth taking? I like to think it's worth taking on line fodder with only G-access. At least after Block and Tackle. |
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