happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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May 14, 2015 - 01:24 |
 
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Going from ag 4 to ag 5 is a no-brainer, as it is awesome. Going to ag 6 is something to think about, as I think it depends more on the player and their role - but in this case I would totally do it.
The reasons not to, as elsewhere in this thread seem to be "not TV efficient", or "he's already good enough" which just doesn't make sense to me.
Here are the reasons why I would not take ag 6 on a gutter: I already have an ag 6 gutter, or he's already built in such a way that this would get in the way of a skill I really need or something. And even then it would be a hard call. Do you take ag 6 on an elf lino? That is a harder question to answer.
Here's why you *should* take ag 6 on a gutter runner.
1) Rats win big on all loose ball situations. Improving your primary ball retriever to be able to get there better AND pick up better even in extreme conditions is amazing. Think of the threat he poses from a wizard. You can just bolt, go and grab it on a 2+ next to 2 TZ and get out all with a few 2+ rolls.
2) You make dt very weak against him. And sure, he has leap but I have quite a bit of experience with leapers and dt can still pose a problem if it's positioned well. You're talking about making a 4+ or 5+ dodge into a 2+ or 3+ dodge. Leaping in and dodging out or dodging in an leaping out become amazing options for such a player, and he's mobile enough to get ANYWHERE.
3) Who is this going to help you the most against? Newer coaches or experienced coaches? Easy teams or hard teams? To me, it's clearly the hard matchups against well built teams with players in good positions. Those are the situations where you have hard rolls to make and he makes those rolls easier, even blows their position out of the water sometimes. Is ag 5 leap enough? Well sure, if you're used to easy matchups where no one is making you roll more than a 2+ with your ag 5... Since I build teams aiming to play hard matches, ag 6 is something I drool over. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 14, 2015 - 01:58 |
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| xnoelx wrote: | | So... what you're saying is, only winning percentage counts? Hence Bobs outranks you, and we should listen to him? |
A sophisticated sophistry |
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Bobs
Joined: Feb 26, 2009
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May 14, 2015 - 02:24 |
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Woohoo \o/
Seriously though AG6 is a luxury but when its needed he will be able to do what nobody else on the team can do. Leaping onto a ball in 3-4 zones and dodge out to pass will win games. Any ball on the ground anywhere is now gettable. |
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si non modo numquam pragmaticam
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Tricktickler
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
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May 14, 2015 - 03:05 |
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I would take AG6 any day on a gutter but in this case he has MA10 and AG6 will get in the way of optimizing him as a 1-turner.
But as have already been pointed out I have another +MA gutter and will probably make that one my 1-turner instead (even though he only has AG4 and won't be as good) and give this one AG6, Block and Sure Hands. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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May 14, 2015 - 13:33 |
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Yep, I did look at your team to see you had another +ma GR already but forgot to mention that in my post. The way you're rolling stats though maybe he gets +ag before long anyway...  |
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Merrick18818
Joined: Dec 14, 2013
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May 14, 2015 - 13:40 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | It's really frustrating to constantly see the "don't turn down nuffle's gifts" crowd chime in with bad advice....
Winning percentages with rats of coaches in this thread reccomending AG6:
Leilond - 44%
Bobs - 73%
TheThinkTank - 49%
xarogobar 0%
Roland - 33%
MDeLarge - 66%
tmoila - 36%
CastleMan 41% |
If you'd read my post instead of just looking for my win record, you'd notice that I suggested taking it for fun instead of for effectiveness.
It's not all about winning. Get your head out of your ass. |
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uzkulak
Joined: Mar 30, 2004
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May 15, 2015 - 00:23 |
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ag6 is a good counter to DT  |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 15, 2015 - 00:24 |
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Lets answer a question with a question: Have you ever had an AG6 player before? |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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May 15, 2015 - 00:26 |
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AG6 means you can leap into 3TZ on a 2+ and pick up the loose ball on a 3+ and then dodge out on a 2+ and then hand off the ball on a 2+ and let the other gutter run it in for the score.
I do not see the downside of this plan.
For full disclosure: PainState winning % with rats: 70% |
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Rat_Salat
Joined: Apr 22, 2011
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May 15, 2015 - 00:29 |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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May 15, 2015 - 00:34 |
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| Wreckage wrote: |
if your objective is solely ball retrieval ag6 is a good choice, unfortunatly that is the only thing ag6 is gonna be good for. It doesn't help with passes and dodging you don't even really need to do. |
I would like to point out that AG6 does help with passing the ball in those specific scenarios that pop up from time to time.
AG6 Long Bombs on a 3+. Iam not saying you do it every game and pass the ball all over the place
what Iam saying is AG6 passing is nice because you can pass out to 13 paces on a 3+ IF you have to.
OR
Punt the ball up to 13 paces on a 3+
maybe only comes up 1 in 6 games or so but nice to have in your back pocket when needed. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 15, 2015 - 00:50 |
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| Rat_Salat wrote: | | Click here for the downside of that plan. Turn 5. |
How often does that plan work by the numbers? If you did that 10 times how often would we see a fail?
It's like every time I say passblock gets people killed, I'm thinking of one specific instance where an AG5 Legend died trying to intercept a pass against me.
Edit: Rewatching the replay...you left him hanging out to dry and got him killed. Surprised that he blitzed with the MA 10 instead of the Blockle but what do I know, that GR left the pitch cold and lifeless.
So if the plan constitutes giving naked Blitzes up on a player with only Dodge, yeah, that plan doesn't pan out most games. I was halfway expecting a snaked leap that got him killed. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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May 16, 2015 - 08:52 |
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Yeah, it is like saying that don't take the movement 9 on norse runner, cause this one died on a GFI.
https://fumbbl.com/p/blog&c=bghandras&id=17103
With that said I am not fully convinced about agility 6, but for a different reason. Not TV, not awesomeness, but opportunity cost. 1 turner is so important. |
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Roland
Joined: May 12, 2004
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May 16, 2015 - 09:14 |
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| TheThinkTank wrote: | | Rat_Salat wrote: | It's really frustrating to constantly see the "don't turn down nuffle's gifts" crowd chime in with bad advice....
Winning percentages with rats of coaches in this thread reccomending AG6:
Leilond - 44%
Bobs - 73%
TheThinkTank - 49%
xarogobar 0%
Roland - 33%
MDeLarge - 66%
tmoila - 36%
CastleMan 41% |
If you'd read my post instead of just looking for my win record, you'd notice that I suggested taking it for fun instead of for effectiveness.
It's not all about winning. Get your head out of your ass. |
+1, read again |
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the_Sage
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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May 16, 2015 - 09:58 |
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| PainState wrote: |
I would like to point out that AG6 does help with passing the ball in those specific scenarios that pop up from time to time.
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Yer, but no. AG6 doesn't add ANYTHING to passing over AG5. Nor leaping. So it helps with pickup, dodge or catch (& intercept) in(to) multiple TZs only. |
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