Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 29, 2010 - 23:22 |
 
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| pythrr wrote: | | there you have it. |
I have pythrrs gonads  |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2010 - 00:25 |
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could be worse. you could have no gonads. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2010 - 01:27 |
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beg borrow or steal, eh Fouly?
Btw, can I call my new team (after the EVENT) "Pythrr's gonads"? |
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Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2010 - 03:53 |
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I'd be all for a warning too.
The system of the opponent having to press the button to end the turn is good from a practical perspective, but from a social perspective it's a great deal worse than the turn just ending automatically. The rant in the first post is a testament to that.
Usually 4 minutes is far too long, but I've definately gone over 4 minutes for a turn. And yes, just from thinking and without leaving the keyboard or getting distracted. I'm not a fast player but I don't waste time either. Sometimes you just want to plan something a little complicated. I probably wouldn't bother in a random [R] game (not that I've played [R] for quite a while anyway), but in a league game or tournament it's good to have time to think.
What happened to that buffer of extra time for the whole game though? Even a short one would do. I'd much rather have 3 minutes a turn and a 5 minute buffer than 4 minute turns and no buffer. Time to think when you really need it but most turns moving quick. |
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Zlefin
Joined: Apr 14, 2005
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Dec 30, 2010 - 05:37 |
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this argument is stupidly redundant. We already had this argjument; the results were put into ski's client. clearly that's what should be put into this one, and for the same reasons as before; with maybe a few minor tweaks. so stop repeating old arguments adn use the system that we know is correctly designed for this. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Dec 30, 2010 - 07:25 |
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| Zlefin wrote: | | this argument is stupidly redundant. so stop repeating old arguments. |
hahahahha
but then what would we do? |
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Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2010 - 08:01 |
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| Zlefin wrote: | | this argument is stupidly redundant. We already had this argjument; the results were put into ski's client. clearly that's what should be put into this one, and for the same reasons as before; with maybe a few minor tweaks. so stop repeating old arguments adn use the system that we know is correctly designed for this. |
So far as I can tell, the FFB implementation is completely different from skijunkie's client. So doesn't your point that it should be left the same as it was mean we should in fact be having this argument - to get it changed back? Otherwise though I agree with you.
| Lakrillo wrote: | I think the current implementation of the timout is pretty nice.
If you are playing a casual game, like i consider most non-tournament games would be, i would not time out an opponent unless he goes over the time many times.
Especially if he says that he is new to the game and begs for forgiveness about that.
However in a league-game or tournament, i would hover the mouse over that timeout-button. 4 minutes should be enough. |
Although I agree with everything there on its own, to me it's almost the complete reverse of how it should be.
In a casual game, the stakes are low, so make a guess, play fast and don't waste your opponent's time optimising everything to the finest detail.
In a tournament though, it's worth taking the time to do it right and spending the time to think. There's something riding on it and it's worth setting aside some time for the game to play slower. No one wants to be screwed by getting timed out in a tournament game, and I wouldn't enjoy winning only because my opponent rushed and made silly mistakes trying to stick to a fairly arbitrary time limit (ok I would enjoy it, but not as much). So although I'd have no mercy with the timer (or anything else) in a tournament either, because that's just what you do, I think it's a sucky state of affairs. |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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Jan 02, 2011 - 14:52 |
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@Irgy: I understand your points and appreciate of them. I still agree with Lakrillo in the matter.
The timelimit of 4 minutes is specified in the rules. However, when playing the game, many coaches choose to not enforce the timelimit. In tournaments, the interpretation of the rules may be more rigid - I remember that it is a common tactic in chess for example to play fast and have the opponent to lose by time out - time is there an element by which you can win the game.
I find the current implementation to be quite clever. It generally works. There may be the complicated situation, for which Gotte started this whole thread that the players' understanding of their non-verbal agreement regarding of their time policy is different, ie. player A takes 5 minutes to complete their turn but then timeouts the opposition in the next round. Perhaps this still could be most efficiently handled with the current social structures on the site, ie. in the chat or by the listing applications? |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Jan 02, 2011 - 14:58 |
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| uuni wrote: | | The timelimit of 4 minutes is specified in the rules. |
True, it is defined that a turn shall not take more than 4 minutes and when a turn ends. It is not defined when a turn starts, apart from that you "may start your turn" after a turnover, which leaves room to interpretation. You even can argue that a turn starts with the movement of the turn marker.
So, as long as nothing has been done on the pitch to start the turn, no timer should run. |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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Jan 03, 2011 - 00:49 |
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| f_alk wrote: | | uuni wrote: | | The timelimit of 4 minutes is specified in the rules. |
True, it is defined that a turn shall not take more than 4 minutes and when a turn ends. It is not defined when a turn starts, apart from that you "may start your turn" after a turnover, which leaves room to interpretation. You even can argue that a turn starts with the movement of the turn marker.
So, as long as nothing has been done on the pitch to start the turn, no timer should run. |
Communist! |
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Bobs
Joined: Feb 26, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 03, 2011 - 01:41 |
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You also have the opponents turn in which to think and plan and generalize an idea.
4 mins is enough to finalize and implement those plans.
If your the type that leaves on the opponents turn and just returns on the beeper thats the penalty you pay. Having to plan quickly and making mistakes might lose the game but keeps things moving. |
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Nighteye
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 03, 2011 - 01:58 |
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| f_alk wrote: | | uuni wrote: | | The timelimit of 4 minutes is specified in the rules. |
True, it is defined that a turn shall not take more than 4 minutes and when a turn ends. It is not defined when a turn starts, apart from that you "may start your turn" after a turnover, which leaves room to interpretation. You even can argue that a turn starts with the movement of the turn marker.
So, as long as nothing has been done on the pitch to start the turn, no timer should run. |
While I kinda agree with this, it would not work. What you would end up with, was players using unlimited amounts of time to think out their moves before they started their turn. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 03, 2011 - 02:38 |
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I was bringing the point up mainly to show that it has to be a compromise anyway, so playability and fairness need to be the deciding factors, and not the rule book. If you go by the rule book, you open a can of worms.
And of course, we play FFB - a game that only by chance is similar to that GW game and the CRP.  |
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Mr_Foulscumm
Joined: Mar 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 03, 2011 - 09:14 |
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| f_alk wrote: | | And of course, we play FFB - a game that only by chance is similar to that GW game and the CRP. |
Which is why were adding the Eye and the old Dirty Player rules back into the client. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 03, 2011 - 12:46 |
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| bobsarmy wrote: | You also have the opponents turn in which to think and plan and generalize an idea.
4 mins is enough to finalize and implement those plans.
If your the type that leaves on the opponents turn and just returns on the beeper thats the penalty you pay. Having to plan quickly and making mistakes might lose the game but keeps things moving. |
What happens if I go to the toilet and they skull out? :/ |
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