Stonetroll
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 06, 2013 - 14:24 |
 
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This post is directed to Christer and the admin team, who are in the end the people who decide about these things. But I would like to invite anybody who is interested in this thing to argue with or against me on this. Also I want to immediately point out that I have no coding expertise whatsoever, so I can't say how feasible this idea would be to implement.
But I would like to propose and improvement to the CR system by isolating the rank for each race, and the rank for each race would weight the same when calculating the overall coach rank. Furthermore, each race ranking could have 3 different Team Value tiers (for example low up to 1300, mid up to 1800 and high for everything beyond that). The point is, with 24 races and 3 tiers, to limit the effect of playing the "same" matchup over and over.
As far as I know we already have rankings for specific races and this is just fine-tuning it further. Hopefully, this would encourage people to play more diverse matches while taking away the rewards from minmaxers (because really, screw those guys). At least looking from outside to systems like ELF scoring, that encourage this kind of behaviour, they seem to have been received very positively by those involved.
In short, more WEIGHT to DIVERSE matchups and LESS WEIGHT on finding optimal matchups and exploiting them. Also more FUN.
Please chip in if you have opinions, and I hope Shadow and the admin stormtroopers stomp down hard on any trolling  |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 06, 2013 - 14:30 |
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sounds reasonable. But I have a question. What would you rather Christer spent his time on? Messing with formulas etc... or improving League?
For me League should be the priority, though people have others and it is ultimately up to Christer. But just throwing my 2 cents in.
But the idea is okay. |
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Anzelak
Joined: Nov 26, 2009
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Mar 06, 2013 - 14:32 |
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Gotta give this the thumbs down I'm afraid matey.
I like things as they are. And playing in the L division is superior anyway.
Christer's time is best spent elsewhere.
Additionally, coaxing my fumbbl-newbie friends into the site is difficult enough without an overly-complicated system like this, haha. They're idiots, what can I say? It's why we're good friends. |
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neoliminal
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2013 - 14:36 |
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The ranking system isn't broken. (So why tweak it and possibly break it?) |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 06, 2013 - 14:42 |
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| Anzelak wrote: |
Additionally, coaxing my fumbbl-newbie friends into the site is difficult enough without an overly-complicated system like this, haha. They're idiots, what can I say? It's why we're good friends. |
Yeah but.........do you have any idea how the current CR formula works? I haven't, so if you do, you have one up on me.
So to clarify (with an example) and if it is, it's something i've though of doing on a totally different game, but I'm not sure it's suited to this environment.
There would be 24x3 rankings and each mini ranking is added (rather than averaged) to your ranking.
So let's say Iets say I played with 11 races and at 2 different levels for those races, I would have 22 parts added to my rankings. The rest would be set at 0.
I like it in theory, but it wouldn't actually show how successful you are would it? Just how many games you've had. So a good new coach, would be rated very low, which wouldn't equate to their success rate. |
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MerryZ
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
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Mar 06, 2013 - 14:49 |
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I likes.
Moar diversity less pimping in B with rtard teams. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 06, 2013 - 15:16 |
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I have no thought on tweeking CR, that is up to Christer to decide.
But I do have a serious issue with the base premise. You make it sound like CR is the main reason the majority of coaches make Min/Max killer teams. I think that is a false premise.
Coaches who make Min/Max cheese teams could care less about CR IMO. CR is about #10 on the top 10 reasons to make a min/max Box cheese team.
Thus the premise you lay out will not solve the actual problem even IF Christer took the time to change CR. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Mar 06, 2013 - 15:18 |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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Mar 06, 2013 - 15:38 |
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I don't see much use with the CR for races. So certainly don't get more CRs for races.
I would like to see the CR for coaches determined by the average CR of the CRs they have for each race instead of the separate rating it is now. This would encourage coaches to play a wider variety of races in order to get a higher than average coach rating on each of them and would rid the CR top list of coaches that only know how to play a few of the races. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Mar 06, 2013 - 16:49 |
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| Stonetroll wrote: |
In short, more WEIGHT to DIVERSE matchups and LESS WEIGHT on finding optimal matchups and exploiting them. Also more FUN.
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I am 100% behind any effort that can succeed at the above goals. At first glance, I bet your proposal would help somewhat. At the very least, it would mean people who want to cheese to the top at least have to learn to cheese a bunch of different races... and I would call that improvement! 
That said, Garion makes a good point about the "community wishlist", and some of the other things that would also improve the site. At the end of the day it probably just comes down to what peaks Christer's interest, as that's what will get worked on!
Still, kudos for throwing out an interesting idea. I would like to see it, or something like it.  |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Mar 06, 2013 - 16:54 |
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If people want to cheese to the top why not let them?
If you think CR is meaningless(it is) then why care if someone else's is higher than you think it should be?
It would be kind of cool if CR was meaningful but CR is by no means a Coach Ranking and Christer has made it quite clear that he doesn't really care that it isn't. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Mar 06, 2013 - 17:02 |
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The point is not to make it so you can't, the point is to put a good incentive for coaches to play diverse matchups. If you want to be the top ranked coach (for those that care) that means you HAVE to play a few matchups with every race. You can pick your heart out, you can minmax - but at least you can't just get to the #1 spot by cheesing 1100 TV zons in the box.
The idea is, as I see it, mostly about giving people a reason (other than fun of course!) to play some races that they would normally overlook in their race to embiggen their CR. |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Mar 06, 2013 - 17:05 |
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hmm, interesting ...
but I just can't seem to bring myself to care.... |
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Hitonagashi
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
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Mar 06, 2013 - 17:11 |
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I like this idea a lot.
The one problem it might have is the "NAFesque" one of not playing your 'best' race. If you get a ridiculously high rating with a particular race, there's a strong incentive not to keep playing it, because it would damage your overall rating.
Still, I think that's a lot better a situation than the current one! |
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Stonetroll
Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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Mar 06, 2013 - 19:49 |
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A small clarification:
I'm not claiming that CR is the only reason people minmax, and there are plenty of people who are quite ready to claim how little they care. Still I think that there are lot of competitive people playing this game. But adjusting the formula to better suit what a lot of people in the community think acceptable, is a better way to influence the opinions of those who care than say rage-blogs or public shaming. It is all about communicating what is being perceived as valuable by the community.
Also it is not up to me to decide how important this is, just throwing out ideas on a thing that seems to cause friction in this site and community. |
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