Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:42 |
 
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When was the last time a Dark Elf team won a Major? Played a final even? When last I looked they were still the most played race in Ranked, and the most played Elves in Box. So maybe there just aren't any big fat Major-worthy Darkie teams around? Oh wait that ain't right either.
Wood Elves still winning the occasional Major and High Elves making some good runs lately, but where are the Darkies? What's going on? Is it a CRP thing? But why? How? What's your take, coaches? |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 10:55 |
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Darkies are good across the full TV range. FUMBBL majors are not really representative of where races sit in a ruleset. They represent a small number of games in an artificial meta. If I considered Darkies the best team at TV 2200 (I don't, but speaking hypothetically), that might not translate to best team in an uncapped, 7 or 8 game KO tournament.
Basically, I think you need to fully decouple 'how good are Dark Elves' from 'what happens in FUMBBL majors' in your premise to get anywhere. I appreciate your post is Major skewed, but I'd just be careful not to confuse DE missing a few finals with DE not being of use. |
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Rawlf
Joined: Jul 15, 2007
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:02 |
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Necromantics seem to be very en vogue. Maybe that's where the coaches went? Like Darkies, Necros are evil by fluff and have a frenzy positional.
I don't believe many coaches are overthinking tourney logic as hard as Purplegoo.  |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:04 |
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I don't even participate, so I'm not overthinking. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:08 |
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They don't have claw or an easy one turn play. Still really strong but there you go. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:45 |
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I love the race. Had good fun with them, and also good results at low TV, like in League setting. I would probably run them in 1100 TV NAF like resurrection tourneys.
But they suck in a major way at high TV single elimination environment. As Jimmy stated they dont have claw nor 1turners, and they dont even have easy access to pomb. The only elven race i would take to major is woodies, as they have 1turner, and wardancers are simply amazing. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:09 |
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I thought they used to do much better in LRB4 but looking up Brainsaw's Majors stats it appears that Woodies always were the top performer of the Elven Races in the Fumbbl Majors, and they've all reclined equally in the days of CRP (except Pro Elves who seem to be better off in CRP).
Oh I totally get that Fumbbl Majors are a special turf. I just wouldn't have thought that the one turning option is that big a thing. Even with Woodies, the games where I have to resort to one turning are usually the games I'm losing. There is the odd game where the one turner saves the day but I wouldn't have thought it makes all the difference. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:17 |
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Those stats are very limited though. There is a lot of luck and coaching involved in each game and WE have got to 3 finals and won them all while HE have got to 4 finals and lost em all. DE have got to 5 finals and gone 2-3. One would imagine more people use WE and DE than HE too. |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:18 |
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Well, if you follow the "defend first" methodology, and have enough men to one turn at the end of a half, then you are in a favourable position, and quite likely have enough men to stall out a win in the second.
Which is where the advantage of cheap linos on pro elves come in, since they will likely have a large rostered squad at most TVs and have fast catchers (with NoS in case your one turn pushing doesn't quite go as planned).
There are some players for whom one turning is pretty much an accepted facet of every single game they play, provided they have the players to do so. It ceases to become a desperation ploy when you are able to perform it with perfunctory regularity. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:20 |
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Where'd you get those figures Jimmy? *want* |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:23 |
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I just looked at all the finals and recorded the results heh. I'll see if I can get the info online. |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Jan 27, 2016 - 13:21 |
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I think DE have all the tools they need. It's a team that can build great supporting players and just needs a few stats and doubles to make them pop (like a great many other teams) at higher TV.
Even if we assume that they are "the worst of the elves" that sill puts them ahead of almost everyone else for winning a major. And I think they have a leg up on pro elves at least. |
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Bazakastine
Joined: Mar 21, 2014
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Jan 27, 2016 - 14:09 |
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I am slowly going through past tourneys and taking note of the racial makeup of the starting field, the main draw, the semifinals, finals and winners. I plan on going back at least the past 4 years for all the majors. Now I actually only started this project earlier tonight so Ulthuan is the only one I have going back and it is a weird one as far as how the qualifiers stand.
For Ulthuan specifically 14% of Dark Elf Teams reached the Main Draw compared to 6% for Pro Elves, 19% for Wood Elves and 21% for High Elves. Dark Elves and Wood Elves each one the whole thing once. I will give an update once I get another ranked major done to give an idea of how much these percentages are effected by the Light/Dark qualifiers setup. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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Jan 27, 2016 - 16:22 |
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Interesting stuff, I sure hope to see it! I love statistics (don't we all?)  |
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mdd31
Joined: Oct 23, 2014
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Jan 27, 2016 - 17:32 |
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Perhaps you also need to consider who the coaches were playing those teams? Because as we all know, luck has nothing to do with anything in Fumbbl, it is ALL about the coaching!! |
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